Why The High Street Should Die.

[Richard]

I have been trying to tidy up a few old jobs and used the last of my double sided stick_things_to_the_wall_tape.

No problem thought I, I won’t mess with mail order and get it tomorrow, I will go straight to Halfords and get it this afternoon before we eat.

The first problem was a damned police car with flashing lights closing off one of the main roads, congestion was the inevitable result.

The staff wearing Halfords uniform appeared to work for someone else, they had no clue about the stuff in the shop that I wanted and no interest in helping.

So after over a wasted hour I was home again. It should have been a twenty ~ thirty minute round trip. I should get the tape I want tomorrow, thank goodness for mail order.

Retail therapy is far too overrated.

[Dave Rice]

+1 Even supermarket trips are a rarity these days.

[Ed P]

True, but destruction of the traditional retail sector costs a lot of unskilled jobs, equally having a derelict town centre is a recipe for all sorts of ills.

The whole sector needs Government Planning and encouraged investment but Brexit looks like killing any chances of that happening.

[JayCeeDee]

I have to preface this post with an admission of mild hypocrisy – despite shopping at Aldis for most of our weekly food needs, I am still precious about our local High Street. I would use it more if life was made easier on the parking front, but the council have to make up the cuts in Gov’t funding somehow!!??☹? I do still use the butchers for most of our meat needs, a dry cleaners/launderette for large items, our Post Office ( in the back of one of the Co-ops,) and an old fashioned ironmongers that is dearer than the sheds but convenience is King. 2 minutes to the village or 10 miles to the sheds and back.

The wife went out the other day to her gym in Margate, parked the car, did her gym and then went to Minnis Bay, parked the car and went for a walk along the front. She took a flask of coffee and a book.

Parking had cost her £7.50 in total for an hour at the gym and two on the beach!!

We are lucky at the moment, ( under review by the council despite complaints up the wazoo ) to be charged 20p for the first half hour in one of the car parks. That could increase to £2 for the first hour and £1.50 for the next in line with most of the others. The owners of small tea shops and the like near the beaches are up in arms – nobody wants to spend more on parking the car than on a cup of tea!! Their businesses are under threat.

I went out earlier in the week to order bricks et al to rebuild a front wall. Phoned in advance to check they had everything I needed and could deliver. The journey to Westwood Cross – normally 10 or so minutes, took me over an hour to get there. A fire on the Saturday before had closed off roads and they still had hoses that were more like 8″ rubber pipes running across closed roads. When we eventually got to Travis Perkins they had sent most of the staff home for the afternoon as toxic smelling smoke was still drifting across the estate. We managed to blag our way in and put in the order. In total an hour’s run took me nearer three with the diversion and increased traffic.

[D-Dan]

In the interest of full disclosure, I packed in driving maybe 8 years ago, so I walk locally pretty much everywhere. I’d hate to see the high street die. I’m a tactile shopper, who likes to see and feel what he’s buying. I do shop for a lot of stuff on Amazon, but it’s usually electronics. For everything else (clothes, food, general crap etc.) I want to be there, see it, test it.

Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

[PlaneMan]

Before my rheumatoid arthritis got to bad to cycle, I’d walk/cycle everywhere. I used to do at least 30 miles a day, rain or shine.

Even on my fatbike (when my hip was getting worse) I’d do 25 miles a few times a week.

My point is local to me it was easy to chain a bike up, get local meat/veg. My mate had the greengrocers diagonally across from the butchers. Now unless I’m there 4 hours before a shop opens, can’t park. Residents leave their cars in the disabled spots, technically that’s OK if the badge is being used correctly.

 

[Bob Williams]

Louth “High Street” is different: a Georgian town that lies in a depression off the Wolds, lowest point by the River Lud is actually below Sea Level. Town even has Roman and Prehistoric history, it’s f***in’ ancient man, and often feels like it! Streets are narrow, pavements just enough room to pass for 2 or 3 people. Shops vary from expensive clothes shops, to EWM and Peacocks, Heron, Superdrug, Wilkos etc. A lot of different Eateries of all kinds, including a Moroccan. 3 markets a week and people come from all over the country in coaches and cars, to clog our pavements and do some rubbernecking. Any trucky who can negotiate Louth streets, is a real driver.

We use a local fishmonger in the indoor market, greengrocer and an award-winning butcher. Anything else is Morrisons, although all their butchery is also from a local farm combine and is fairly good. Eggs and some veg from the village Volunteer-staffed shop, supplied by a farm down the road. Picked in the morning, delivered within an hour, eaten at dinner. Anything fresher is still growing!

I would hate to see our Louth shops go the way of so many others. High Streets rely what the businesses put into them and Louth businesses have either learned to compete, or die and become YACS*. Parking is a minimum of £1/hour, double time allowed for a Blue Badge. There are places where I can park for nowt and I have found them all in the 18 years I have been here. I guard that knowledge even from friends!

We also have the best chippies in Lincolnshire!

*Yet Another Charity Shop.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Tippon]

I had a chat with the staff in a local shop this week, laughing at the sorry state of our town. We’ve got car parks at either end, which are fairly cheap thanks to complaints from the local businesses. However…

Businesses at the ‘edges’ of the route between car parks are still complaining that we need more car parks.

The indoor market owns a decent amount of property around town and prices any competition out.

The shops that are open and not big names close by about 4pm *if* they open on a particular day.

The stalls in the market close earlier, and the staff in some are routinely rude.

The staff from a lot of the town centre shops park and drive down pedestrian streets, making them unsafe for families and the elderly especially.

Despite all this, when an old school friend set up a Facebook page to drum up custom, the traders handed out a load of abuse and complaints when people dared to suggest that their shops weren’t perfect, and even blamed customers for not going to their shops! One shop is on a side street, under another shop, and the owner got quite abusive when someone said they didn’t know the shop was there.

I’d love to see the town centre thriving, even if it’s because I have to kill a few hours in the afternoons, but I find it hard to support people like that.

[Bob Williams]

” Despite all this, when an old school friend set up a Facebook page to drum up custom, the traders handed out a load of abuse and complaints when people dared to suggest that their shops weren’t perfect, and even blamed customers for not going to their shops! One shop is on a side street, under another shop, and the owner got quite abusive when someone said they didn’t know the shop was there. ”

Sounds a bit like a group that formed in and around Louth, made up of self-satisfied, wealthy people from the plush outer areas of big houses. “Keep Louth Special” they called themselves a few years ago, letters in the local papers and on FB, telling us all to patronise certain (expensive) shops: “use them or lose them” was their motto. Well, most died and the vast majority of we Great Unwashed, carried on shopping at the same Poor People outlets. There are still a few more expensive shops left, but the stuff they sell is worth buying.

Seems Keeping Louth Special was too much like hard work. Demand creates Supply.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[wasbit]

Come to Witney (the ex prime minister’s constituency) where the parking is free. It pulls in shoppers from 20-25 miles away.

Doesn’t stop shops from closing though. Empty premises used to be rapidly taken up by estate agents, then charity shops & now eating places.

--
Regards
wasbit

Rig 1: Optiplex 3050 SFF
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Rig 3: HP Elitebook 8440P

Dear Starfleet, hate you, hate the Federation, taking Voyager. - Janeway

[Richard]

I could not tell you what shops any of the local-ish high streets have these days. I know that when one was a thriving place it used to have the likes of the Co-op, Woolworths, Times furnishing, M&S, BHS and Littlewoods with a number of successful smaller emporia. Now all of those names are gone, with M&S choosing to go a little while back. They wanted to make the store more efficient but the local council, ably lead(?) by its leader said that M&S was ‘too up market’ for the towns’ residents. I think part of the vacated shop was then used for a video games pavilion, it gave someone somewhere to go I guess. But I am not sure who or for how long. I last walked through the town on the way back from the hospital to the bus station. It resembled a town after a declaration of plague, very few people and the few who were there looked as though they would rather not be about much longer as they smoked themselves to death. All hints, let alone trace of vibrancy have been expunged. At least the shops that were still trading had not closed for the day at 10:30, but there was precious little reason to visit any of them. So I, like others, hurried on by. Even the market square, which once hosted several dozen stalls appeared to be reduced to about 6 most of them now trading little more than bric-a-brac. Talk about depressing it was like a film set for a depression film.

The lady who does some gardening went to Skegness for a holiday to see what it was like. While Skegness still showed the odd spark of life, even there too many of the shops and stalls were keen to shut by mid afternoon while others she said were boarded up. In the surrounding places many did not bother to open at all and most were cleared closed and shut down with the expectation they would soon be torn down, but what would take their place and why?

Locally, the town where I wanted to buy something the other day and failed to get served with anything useful, still has its main off high street trading area cut in half by work to (avoid?) a gas leak repair. It is clearly going to be a long job. Judging by the number of lorries parked there this morning just brewing tea for everyone should take all day today. A task made harder by the lack of working gas supplies and a prohibition on naked flames. One of the locals only half joked that the should not have bothered about the leak and stopping naked lights and just let the whole thing blow up and start again. I could understand the thinking behind their comment, brutal though it was.

The death march of the once town centre was lead by one operator of a few enterprises at the older end of town whose enterprises were not universally loved. He blocked all of then then sensible plans for development and even bought up and closed the cinema and, I understand removed the roof to limits the buildings possible use. I suspect he achieved his aim of blighting that end of the town. Such is the way that some ‘traders’, (or should that be anti traders?) in small towns think.

[Bob Williams]

I don’t know which town you are talking about Richard, your local?

Louth is certainly still vibrant, especially on Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays, which are all market days. The town is packed on those days, even more so during days of good weather. Wednesday is the best market day and has at least 20 stalls, reduced by about 40% on Fridays, 20% on Saturdays. There are many different stalls selling everything from Asian food to Grimsby fish, specialist cheeses, local farm veg, hats, other clothing, books and magazines, many other items. Louth and East Lyndsey people are very protective of the town: so much so that a jewellery shop burglary was defeated by locals a couple of years ago. Two scumbags on a motorbike entered the store, smashed up shelves with hammers and tried to get away with loot. By the time they got outside to their bike, locals had severely disabled it. When they ran, they were both chased by locals who kept Police up to date by mobile phones. One was caught and ‘severely disciplined’ by a big local lad, the other tried to hijack a car and was driven off by the driver, to be tracked and caught by the Force helicopter. All the loot was recovered and the scumbags are serving long sentences.

You do not mess with East Lyndsey people.

We still have a very good 5- screen cinema, a popular modern Theatre, large well-used Leisure Centre, very good Museum and lots of different eateries and more pubs, clubs etc than I could count. The Theatre and Museum are largely volunteer-run and both are well attended. It’s a great town with a lot of Community Spirit and I love living here.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Ed P]

Unless town centres evolve fairly quickly they will die.

Imo the average town centre should become a social meeting point, dining/drinking venue, and entertainment/exercise centre  combined with personal services (e.g. hairdressers etc). The only surviving shops will sell the sort of things that we need NOW but forgot to order on line e.g. glue, sticky tape, paint testers, food. booze etc. I omitted teenage facilities mainly because I do not think anyone has cracked that area. Maybe something on the lines of a Laser Tag stadium with robotic foes for the lads and adventurous lasses, but I’ve no idea what female oriented pursuits should be provided.

Larger shopping centres could also evolve to provide the touchy-feely hand-on experiences that we all like. Rather like a personal shopper experience linked to an on-line order/delivery service. Even factory oulet towns such as Street only have a limited lifespan against on-line shopping

How we bridge the gap from here to there could cause a massive amount of pain unless it is well managed at the Government/Local Authority level!

[Bob Williams]

Ed wrote:

” Imo the average town centre should become a social meeting point, dining/drinking venue, and entertainment/exercise centre combined with personal services (e.g. hairdressers etc). The only surviving shops will sell the sort of things that we need NOW but forgot to order on line e.g. glue, sticky tape, paint testers, food. booze etc. ”

Describes Louth town centre Ed!

Yesterday I went to a new barber shop in town and was given old-style barber shop cut by a young man from Manchester who had the good sense to relocate here. His shop is wonderful, set out as 1940’s/50’s with a framed VE Day newspaper on the wall, Elvis photos, an old steam radio playing softly jazz, early Rock’n’Roll. He uses hot towels and gives a neck shave with soothing cream and a cutthroat razor. Did my eyebrows, ‘tache and ears, all the stuff that departed my scalp and headed South. Just like I remember barbershops from my childhood, a Time Machine of a shop.

There are another 4 barber shops in and near town centre, I have used them all but really like this one. As I said previously, Louth is vibrant day and night. There is not much I cannot get in town, but the problem is Blue Badge parking, of which there is never enough. We need BB parking for the space, as SWMBO is now unable to get out of any car without using a folding step stool. That means having space at the side of the car. On market days I usually find one of my secret parking places, or I drive to Grimsby.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Richard]

Bob, I did not want to be too parochial and while the town is not ‘mine’ it is the nearest largish place that once had the daytime trade to hold interest. My local ‘town’ well it does have a town council, has one ‘main street’ with a dozen or so shops in various buildings. The buildings range in age from the last 30 years back to at least the last 300 or 400 years and some of the latter places look that way from their style rather than their state of repair. The church goes back a long, long way in History and some burials go back before some of the Royal Henry Kings for what it is worth today. Many shop units are tiny so ill suited to modern business other than a building society, or solicitors, though some have reached backwards and contain hairdressers, charity shops, a part time vet and the like. Nightlife it does not have.

The nearby town was a post war ‘new town’ and has struggled to come to terms with its own creation and all the twists and turns of its changing fate. Many local industries have moved on for various reasons so it is increasingly a dormitory town. Some actively seek to eliminate anything remotely aspirational. While I agree with both your and Ed’s views that town centres must either evolve or die the die option appears to be the front runner at the moment. It is not a place I would like to linger as dusk was falling and, from my earlier comments you can understand why. Yours Bob does appear to have evolved its cosy niche that currently serves it well, long may that remain the case, I suspect it has a broader mix of traders and customer demographics than many. Certainly from your description of its markets that appears to be the case. This one lacks any historical perspective, it is firmly rooted in a one class cheap and quality lacking offering and nothing else. Grey neglected concrete does not add a positive ambience in which to house shops that appear as unhappy as their patrons. The patrons only visit because they feel they have to go there and would probably prefer to be able to go elsewhere. Certainly the lack of stock drove me out some years back, when it was where you went if you did not want to buy something because was not available anyway.

To the North there is another place that is, I suspect more like Louth, though it appears to have missed the success boat, which sailed away some while back. Nowhere has any sort of appealing night life offering, transport is pretty dire and the car park was cunning designed so that the queuing in bound traffic completely blocks those trying to get out on all but the quietest days. On the run up to Christmas local headlines are always a reprint of last years accounts of the frustration of those trying to enjoy a visit involving more than sitting in a stationary car.

Community efforts do try to start up, but the area is probably to affected by dormitory-itis. Those who work away play, shop and order from away. This leaves the area hollowed out and lacking the social resources to sustain initiatives.One such made a great start but the lack of a solid local commercial activity from which to draw local sponsorship will destine it to fail and it will close once its twelve months launch honeymoon is over.

Only today at the pharmacy I mentioned an ongoing ‘family situation*’ for which there is a support group, a great idea for those who can get there and we might be we might be able to get there starting in a few weeks time, if our right stars align and it is still in business, not snuffed out like so many such efforts. The pending onslaught of pre op appointments is a likely serious threat to our freedom to operate.

*My wife’s chemo appears to have achieved it’s success target so the operations can press ahead as soon as possible, once she is fit enough. Several months of recovery will then be in order.

[Bob Williams]

Glad your wife has a positive result from chemo Richard and am hoping for the same myself, come the end of November.

One thing I neglected to mention in my Rose-tinged report on my location, is that hospital and large supermarket trips mean a round trip of at least 44 miles. The large supermarket is a massive Morrisons, which we might visit for a “Big Shop” every 3 or 4 weeks. There is nowhere else I can find my favourite ‘meal in a can’ soup: Crosse & Blackwell Beef & Vegetable, which is a great standby when we don’t fancy a large meal, or when SWMBO’s choice does not agree with mine. I usually buy 3 or 4 cans, which is a chore to carry and adds weight, but it really is a very palatable meal on its own and makes Heinz soup look  anemic.

From your description of the area, I would not like to live there. I was born and raised in a village, now almost the size of a small town. I spent almost 3 years as a child in the Potteries with the widowed aunt with my 5 cousins, as a result of the depredations of a mentally ill mother. The village of Wolstanton was akin to a large island village surrounded by the Potteries’ 5 towns and is still an island of calm in a manic sea of depressed urban sprawl. My surviving cousins and other relatives all live there still and I am in touch with them.

Returning to Blidworth after mother was ‘cured’ and medicated, I fell once again into rural life: catching game with dogs, never using snares, and eating it (never killed what would not be eaten). The village is surrounded by some forest and large farm combines still, it was an ancient Royal Hunt area and part of Sherwood Forest. It lives within a rough triangle of 3 major roads. Blidworth:

http://tinyurl.com/gopd3cm

History and perhaps a little Myth:

http://tinyurl.com/yalffk7j

Once ‘when I were a lad‘ the triangle of A roads was filled with the green of woods, ancient English trees, not the pine woods of today. My brother and I hunted ( and poached) there, my childhood was idyllic playing around those woods with friends, swinging across streams on old rope. we could spend whole days with a bottle of Dandelion & Burdock and a packet of sandwiches, coming home before dark to avoid the clip around the ear! I still have a love of woods, happy to report that my Lincolnshire village is surrounded by them.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

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