Surveillance Capitalism

[Richard]

Steve, I am sorry if I did make myself clear, if I am selling an image product (god forbid and whatever that is) I would believe that part of my image would come from associations with events, news whatever. So my product’s image would be hugely vital to me and if a negative arose I would probably be worried enough to withdraw,  at least for a while. This has happened in the past and some publications have been threatened that if they accept adverts from some, e.g. cosmetics then other expensive high spending ones will walk.

Now out of a billion mugs, how many target customers will there be? OK I made a wild guess at 0,00001% who are likely real customers. Given the huge user number I have little doubt that figure is not too far from the mark, it is still a few 100,000s. Some will not give a flying fig about Facebook being a pile of mouldering dung, though mouldering dung may not be what an advertiser wants as an association… I still wonder what conversion rate adverts have on FB. The industry is very coy at the moment with huge arguments already suggesting it is rotten value for money – some promoted by alternative media it is true. I am very glad I am not an advertising person these days, it must be a high stress occupation.

[The Duke]

That’s the thing with marketing, no one knows what the conversion rates are, or what part of their marketing strat is working.

There is a saying I’m about to butcher, “only 50% of our marketing works. We just don’t know which 50% it is.”

Each company is different, if your target market is clued up nerds that are privacy conscious, fb is not the place to sell your wears. Though if selling products it is.

I was reading something about Google ad revenues last months, it’s not the big boys of this world’s that Google are scared to loose. Samsung and apples of the world may give Google 10s of millions a year, but it’s the millions of small guys that spend £50 to 100 a go they need to keep. I’d suspect fb is exactly the same. So again I can’t see big biz having a break will matter in the long run.

They may withdraw for a week, month or maybe two, but when they see the masses are still talking about their fake perfect lives, or thier fake awful lives (cough attention seekers), plus Nan’s and grandads still there, along with their children, trying to ignore them, the big boys will soon be back.

We have never had such a large world wide communication network before, this is a big claim, but I think fb is now to big to fail. I also predict that nation states are going to want more access and maybe stakes, or the least more controls over their people’s access to fb.

Then depending how that happens and how gov’s treat it, it then could fail. But fail in a relative sense. Maybe lose a few hundred million active users, probably from whole states, rather than a worldwide revolt.

I can’t stand FB, I don’t even use it or have the app, so God knows why I’m arguing from their side. Lol.

Back before fb was huge, and pre all the adds and ‘news’, fb was a good place. Though I stopped using it about 2007/8. But I did like it at first. Then it got bloated and super spammy with html games and requests. I soon opted out. My profile pic is still of my youngest son holding my new born girl, in the hospital.  She is almost ten, and him nearly 17.

[Richard]

I agree with you on the need for the masses of small users for any business. I sold this the other way. To win a big customer you need wafer thin margins as everyone else wants one of them. But if you can sell to small business, masses of them then (a) it is hard for others to eat your lunch, (b) you can usually keep your margins, (c) you are potentially less vulnerable to shifts in sentiment.

Like you I hold no candle for FB, but I hear all sorts of stories that alternatives are already stealing their limelight, I don’t care, I don’t use FB either. Adblocks are wonderful however you exercise them, if I see another damned stupid advert for loans at intergalactic levels of interest I might want to withdraw from the world of stupidity. The same goes for all the must have rubbish that I just do not want or need, ever. Having an ‘image’ product is beyond top of my list of ‘never want’ junk, e.g. daps, sorry trainers with some name on them.

[Ed P]

From Beeb reports this morning the InfoZucker ran rings around the technical illiterati of the US Senate. The reporter said that the Senate demonstrated to themselves that they did not have a clue about the things they were investigating and concluded that they could not legislate something they did not understand —- that has never stopped the UK Parliament and technical/scientific thickos like May.

Off for the rest of the day on grandparent duty, so I will not respond to anyone defending May!

[Richard]

Its a yank outfit so no doubt the world class thicko will leap in and sort them out. Perhaps Trump as the world leading moron will ask his mates in the NRA to post a automatic weapon carrying moron at every entry point to FB? So like his response to the school shootings, or will they be too busy tilting at Syra’s windmills?

[The Duke]

Tbh it was a monumental stupid move for Bill Clinton to ban guns from schools in the first place. People don’t shoot up police department in the US for a reason.

You don’t need guns at the school, you just need the ‘threat of chance’ .

Im a perfect world you would need zero guns, but the USA is far from perfect. But in a land where guns are rife, and control is lax and even uncontrollable even if you wanted.

So to remove weapons from schools is pure idiotic, moronic stupidity at its highest.

Maybe they should actually  post armed security at evey school. As well as designate a percentage of staff have access to one. As it stands now, trumps new ruling just states teachers/staff can now have access to firearms if they want.

This does give the attackers doubt that the intended school may not be such a defenseless duck. I’d make it mandatory that’s there needs to be a minimum of a few staff trained and comfortable with fire arms.

Just untill firearms are brought under control. Which will be never as the NRA is to rich to let that happen.

[Richard]

I understood that in a recent school shoot out the available armed presence followed LDV, Look, Duck, Vanish. Perhaps the gun totting state of US schooling makes home schooling popular. Though, allowing those with mental health issues easy access to armaments is never going to end well. One mother’s self defence ‘arsenal’ took out the mother sundry other folks as well as school kids – but the mother, and I think the unbalanced son had fire arms training.

Sadly the drug and gang (non) culture in parts of London is now making that an ugly hostile place.

[The Duke]

That’s my point if everyone can get guns easily, it makes zero sense for the most vulnerable place to be a known unarmed spot.

For the last 20 years, schools have been a no gun zone, with no houses in a certain proximity allowed them either. So no one could even come to help if they even wanted to.

Now with the hiding bit, this has to be recent because of the above law change, I can only assume these are low paid security guards, with no attachment to the people they are ment to be defending. There main role is probably  scanning kids for knifes etc.. Most people in that situation would hide, or make a token gesture. Wouldn’t you got sub $10ph.

Now if you allow the teachers weapons, I’d bet my left nut, if they took it upon them self’s to take a fire arm into work, they would die for thier kids.

This are shitty a argument to even be having, but if my kids went some inner city crappy school, I’d feel far safer knowing my kids teacher was armed. Though firearms don’t worry me, they are just a tool, and all tools can be used in the wrong way.

[Ed P]

Going back nearly 30 years, even the US Middle Schools had an armed guard at the gate/entrance to the school. In the recent incident such a guard was useless (Trump labelled him a coward). The school my elder son attended even had a metal detector loop that you walked through. I have no idea if this was atypical, it may have been as the area was known to have a number of Mafia Capo families in residence (a very low crime area in consequence). Without some assistance getting a semi-automatic rifle into my son’s school would have involved an armed shoot-out.

While I agree that guns and knives are just tools,  restrictions on their ownership by unstable elements is essential. I dislike living in a society where only the criminals and terrorists are armed. (Our armed police contingent is non-existent they were all stripped out for airport duty years ago, and ditto the unarmed ones)

I’d state that  guns are not appropriate for everyone. The local armed Policewoman in the small US town I lived in used to scare the bejassus out of me. She was about 4ft 6inches tall and built like a barrel, but her gun (a long barrel .444 revolver) was almost half her size, and I feared the consequences for all around if she had ever drawn it from her back holster in anger. I would also hate to think of the often weedy teachers waving similar or even smaller hand-guns around.

[Drezha]

I saw this the other day that I found amusing.

<iframe src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/GwKThyMmi7I&#8221; width=”560″ height=”315″ frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen=”allowfullscreen”></iframe>

"Everything looks interesting until you do it. Then you find it’s just another job" - Terry Pratchett

[The Duke]

Ed why would a police officer with a weapon scare you. Granted if she pointed it at you, that would scare anyone, but I’d bet she hasn’t.

I’d say most normal police officers would be more scared of needing to pull it. And many would only pull the trigger if the really had to. And there will be a large group that would just hide.

This is why paid school security isn’t going to protect life, it’s a footnote in their role. One they never think would happen, and are just happy to be employed.

I’d rather the teacher that has a bond with their pupils was armed. Most classrooms have one door, so said teachers can’t run, it’s fight or die in that situations, most of us don’t want to die.

The school security guard is unlikely to be in a one door room, so they get the option of fight or flight. Most sane people (including the same teacher above) would choose flight. So I wouldn’t call the guard a coward, I’d call him normal. If he was stuck in a room, I bet he would of gone down shooting. As any sane person would. Except my wife, she is terrified of wepons.

I took her shooting once, she wouldn’t even hold one, and would jump out her skin evey time a shot went off. That was about 2000. But my wife is scared of everything, she won’t even stay in a house, even ours, alone at night. It wasn’t a big issue for years, but now the kids will be moving on soon! Good job we still have the 9yo.

Trump would be no use, his little hands can’t reach the trigger.

[Richard]

Steve I see two effects, perhaps with a few divisions.

1) A rapid drop in the number of teachers as those not considering themselves skilled enough leave.

2) Any would be target shooter takes out the teacher first then sprays the rest of the class. Remember the target shooter would likely be armed with a semi automatic semi machine gun the teacher would have no more than one shot with their probably pea shooter size weapon.

2.1) If the teacher was not shot first, then the class would be pretty much right in line for any lose shots from an under skilled teacher. Remember their shots must hit only one target with 100% disabling accuracy, the rampaging loon does not care, the more the merrier for them.

2.2) The invader has the advantage of surprise, the teacher has the disadvantage of being surprised.

‘Filters’ at the door are a great idea to catch unauthorised contraband, though perhaps not plastic pistols, less deadly than an assault weapon but…

My father was out in Indonesia, he knew a family and yes the wife used to drive the kids to and from school with a loaded gun in her handbag or perhaps sometimes on her lap. She used it once, the snake was poisonous but otherwise unarmed, then deceased. She blew its head off.

[The Duke]

Non of them points seem better than a total unarmed class of defenseless children.

What they could do is lock all schools down like prisons I suppose. But life comes down to brass tacks, and it’s cheaper to arm the kids.

No one is saying the teachers have to have a gun, that’s the beauty of firearms, the threat or chance the other person may have one, is usually enough of a deterrent. I’ll say again, how many police departments are shot up? Very few, the reason is headlines, these insane people think if I burst into a school or church I can kill 30 40 50 ….. Before I’m taken down, that will make a statement. Going into a police dept and shooting one cop, and being filled with lead, just isn’t as ‘romantic’ to such people.

 

 

[Richard]

‘Suicide by cop’ excepted?

I would certainly wish my grandchildren to be home schooled rather than going to school in a dump peopled by an uncountable collection of gun toting kids and can not aim straight. Come to think of it that is what some US schools already resemble. Searches on entry with heavy consequences for offenders – at least they have that bit right in the US is a good way forward. Currently many UK schools are already pretty much on lock down anyway with heavily restricted access. The graddaughter’s school is managed that way with ID registration and passwords required. It is all changed since our children were small.

[Ed P]

“Ed why would a police officer with a weapon scare you. Granted if she pointed it at you, that would scare anyone, but I’d bet she hasn’t.”

She used to swagger up the Main Shopping street (not too many of those in the US), but the disproportionate size of her gun to herself made me fearful that if she ever drew and fired it, any second shot could well go anywhere within 45 degrees of where she was facing. She had a BFG but was just not built to handle it.

You may think that the US police would be slow to draw their weapons but you are under a misapprehension. The police in the US are not at all slow to draw their weapons in the event of any provocation. If you ever go on holiday in the US and you are pulled over by the police, stay in your seat with your hands in clear sight and move very slowly. If you need to delve into your pocket to get out ID – ask first before doing it because the Officer will almost certainly have his gun close at hand. The US is very different to the UK, even getting gas (petrol) at a rural Delaware gas station can involve someone pointing a shotgun at you as you walk up to pay.

[Tippon]

@sgb101 One point that @sawboman missed, and that gets overlooked in the arm teachers argument is this:

Someone gets a gun into a school and shots are fired. The police turn up and find half a dozen adults waving guns around surrounded by screaming kids. What do you think the police are going to do? The teachers will be dead before they have a chance to get their government approved ID out of their desks.

The ideal situation would be for the teachers to stay in the classrooms with the kids, but 30 seconds of thinking says that someone who’s willing to die and wants to take people with them would just turn up at a busy time of day, like the beginning or end, or lunchtime, when everyone’s out of the classrooms. A disgruntled student could even turn up between lessons when the corridors are full.

America needs to make it harder for people to get guns, and have very strict penalties for people who let other have access to their guns due to negligence (kid taking an unsecured gun for example).

[The Duke]

I’m totally with you, they need tighter regulation, but it’s clear that’s not going to happen. To many morons in the NRA.

So parking that aside, it makes no sense for kids to be left unprotected.

I can’t see either way, that by the time the police turn up the perpetrator/s would be alive. These things don’t last long in reality. And if the teachers have any sense they side seems will be stowed.

It’s not the perfect solution, but better than them not having weapons. Also it’s not about them having weapons, it’s about them potentially having weapons. That alone is a massive deterrent.

Let’s say you do get a mad man hot a school, class one is dead, the teach has no time, but if the teacher in class two has a side arm, they can be ready, to drop the guy as soon as he enters the door.

I’d have all teachers be trained in the best ways to do this, or at the least the offer of training. Just so again, it sows doubt in the mind of a potential attacker. If they think the features are potentially armed, plus had a few hours of training it protecting a door, and managing kids. I’d have drills in class like we have fire drills. Though you couldn’t spring the drill on everyone lol, that could end badly.

What youre after is making you not the softest target. Let the church and the oaps be that. After all they have lived their life, and want to go to God anyway.

I’m coming across as very right wing in this thread, but I’m very liberal irl. I don’t know if it is cos I’m ex service, but I’m forever weighing up my options wherever I go, I can’t sit in a public place with my backs to doors for instance.

Also the wife sleeps closest to the door. This is the oppersite to what most others would do. However my rational is, if someone was to creep up to our room, they would hit/bat/stab/etc.. The wife (lol sounds bad) however, if they was to knock me out, stab me, I cant them defend the rest of the home, so me being the first contact is actully bad tactically, as if I’m knocked out, who then stops the kids being murdered? The wife would be taking one for the team, so to speak, them hopefully I’d wake before they got me.

We also have one of the smaller bedrooms, ad it’s the first on the landing, so any invader would come in my room first. This is how my strange mind works. I’d feel much safer if I could have a side arm velcrod on my side of the bed.

This maybe a hangover from where I grew up, as burglaries is very rare where I live. We don’t even lock the front and back doors. We’ll we do the front through the day, ad parcel men have let the dogs out a few times, so now we lock the door when we go out, just so the dogs don’t escape.

[JayCeeDee]

Steve – you really need to make sure the wife doesn’t read this –  or you could become a victim of your own planning – without a burglar in sight??!!

[The Duke]

She knows JC. she’s a team player ?

[Author]

Posts