Salisbury – Conspiracy Theorists Heaven

[Spedley]

tadka wrote:

I try to stay away from anything related to politics. I know one fact about it (and that’s all I need to know) – there is no honesty or truth there. But I just watched this video on YouTube due to pure boredom after it popped up on Facebook. I now actually regret having watched it as I just can’t stop thinking how screwed up this world is. But it’s an interesting video nonetheless. A link for those who want to watch it:

I don’t believe it, looks like just a repetition of rumours.  Well made but lacking in any real substance.

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[The Duke]

This no surprise to me. What saddens me is there are many books and podcasts that talk about stuff like this. Over not followed MSN for a long time.

One of my favourite books is Confessions of an economic hitman, by John Perkins, this is primarily About the US and their need to invade states by the back door after WW2, ultimately becoming the CIA and the world bank. A must read for anyone.

A brilliant book which strikes a cord with me, that i only read about 6 months ago is Operation Relentless: the hunt for the richest deadliest criminal in history, by Damian Lewis. It’s about the taking down of Viktor Bout, by the CIA(iirc), but thier investigation soon hits the buffers and blocks, when its uncovered he was funded by the US and Uk.

he could fly arms, drugs and people anywhere, and was doing it for all the big terror groups, so the CIA wanted him gone. However, because he was the best and cheapest courier, many world governments used him too for thier ‘off the books stuff’ .aswell as all the big charities.

On one flight into Afghan (when we was at war), he took aid into one area of afghan for UNICEF(or the like), they move guns to another before area for al Qaeda, then brought drugs back the other way. Fascinating read, oh he was also on the of Forbes or the like as one to watch (in the up and coming businessman).

It chimed a cord for me because his role in the Kongo, ll. ferrying troops and guns for the rebels, aid and hardware for the UN. servicing both sides.

i had no idea about the guy other than the Kongo link going in.  It’s a great read and a fascinating man.

 

[tadka]

Spedley wrote:

tadka wrote:

I try to stay away from anything related to politics. I know one fact about it (and that’s all I need to know) – there is no honesty or truth there. But I just watched this video on YouTube due to pure boredom after it popped up on Facebook. I now actually regret having watched it as I just can’t stop thinking how screwed up this world is. But it’s an interesting video nonetheless. A link for those who want to watch it:

I don’t believe it, looks like just a repetition of rumours. Well made but lacking in any real substance.

I don’t know, those pictures of the White Hats/terrorist looked like enough evidence to me. But to be honest I don’t care, doesn’t matter what I believe or don’t, it won’t make any difference.

[Ed P]

During the Vietnam war the CIA had regular drugs, guns, people flights around the Golden Triangle, Thailand, Laos and Vietnam. They even ran their own little airline based out of Thailand. They are a very murky almost rogue organization that often seemed to run completely counter to the stated official US State Dept policies. link

I cannot vouch for much that Angelfire reports, but I heard parts of their story from other independent sources in the region.

[Ed P]

Wow! After giving the UK complete support for the stance taken over the Salisbury Nerve Agent attack, the US Secretary of State (Rex Tillerson) was sacked!

This is a crazy illogical move imo, Tillerson is extremely intelligent and knowledgeable of the world political and economic scene. There are not many countries that he has not personally visited or worked in.  If he agrees with something then it should not be easily dismissed.

However, that said, I’m equally puzzled why we (the UK) did not adhere to both the letter and spirit of the International Convention on Chemical Weapons. In my books if you are seeking a broad church of international support and working from what others call a weak diplomatic position then you need to ensure you dot i’s and cross t’s. From what I gather, countries are currently expressing horror at the attack but are reluctant to directly blame Russia (implying others may have the responsibility and that more evidence is needed of Russian complicity).

(Before anyone asks what I mean by a ‘weak position’, I’m merely paraphrasing reports on the Beeb and world stage, it wasn’t a snipe at Brexit.)

To draw analogies just because the UK invented VX, we should not be blamed for every illegal act that uses VX. We should be very legalistic in our actions.

It all just leaves me completely puzzled again, and Theresa May must be thinking that everything she touches turns to ashes. Of all the moves, and all the timing one cannot help but wonder at the juxtaposition of events.

[Bob Williams]

Every time the Trumper sacks someone, it demonstrates the classic Megalomaniac’s error: this person is intelligent/efficient/very good at his/her job. They must be dangerous – remove them immediately.

He will not be content until all the sheep in his fold are sheepish and controlled. Megalomaniacs hate individuality, people more intelligent and efficient than themselves. That’s probably 90% of the human race, Donald.

I have an idea for when he comes to London and parades down the Mall in the Royal Coach. Everyone who can attend should line the route in thousands. As the coach passes, everyone turn their backs. No protests, no screaming and shouting, just silent and very pointed disapproval. What is more British than that? Hard luck on Her Maj if she is aboard, but I am sure she probably feels the same about the idiot, if truth were known.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The Duke]

I don’t care to protest trump. However id protest our current PM in that way.

[Bob Williams]

What has Theresa done to upset you so much please Steve?

Write list on reverse of several new £20 notes and send to me.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Bob Williams]

Tillerson sacked by the Trumper’s favourite communications media: a Tweet. And Tillerson does not have a Twitter account.

Want to know how bad Tillerson’s replacement is going to be? –

http://tinyurl.com/y78uxrrk

He was CIA Director. Read his typical CIA past moves, the guy is made from the same Psycho Republican mould as most of the Trumper’s associates, but is worse than any of them. If you thought the world situation was bad atm, I fear we ain’t seen noting yet.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[RSB]

Here is a little more to think about http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43385998

It may of been mentioned before but I have not been following the thread.

Americans: Over Sexed, Over Payed and Over here, Wat Wat!

[Ed P]

The whole Salisbury tale remains very strange.

I see that Julia Skripal has been discharged from hospital and immediately whisked away to a ‘secure place’. All without allowing her to make a public appearance to state that she does not want Russian Consular help etc at this stage. Had this been a Brit in a similar circumstance we would be crying blue murder as indeed Russia has been doing. Very odd behaviour by our Government, I just hope that she does not ‘relapse’ and suffer the same fate as the Skripal’s pet cat and guinea pigs which were starved to death in the Skripal’s house despite all the forensic activities taking place. The animal hair could at least have helped determine the timing of the Skripal’s poisoning. (They cannot now be examined as they were immediately cremated). CNN link

Just as titled, this is a conspiracy theorists heaven, and does not cast HMG in a very good light at all.

[Richard]

The wonderful thing about conspiracy theorists is that they can never understand reality. So let us sit down and think about the one you have just copied down. If a UK ex-spy had defected to Russia, then lived happily until a member of his family visited and both were poisoned allegedly by the UK we would ‘expect’ to be given free access as the suspected murder force. Is that what some actually believe?

Frankly, if I were to be a spy in that position the very last people I would want anywhere near me would be anyone from ‘the wonderful motherland’ whichever that might be, that had been reported to have tried to kill me.

Only someone already committed to a malign cause could see any reflection on the honest host country.

There are unconfirmed stories that the daughter has asked for, or might desire asylum, I find that infinitely more believable. I personally find the ‘telephone call’ reports with the cousin hard to believe, though I have no idea what was really said.

Putin’s game is miss-information and, I have to hand it to him he does play it like a pro, but then he is a fully paid up professional.

[Ed P]

Julia Skripal is not a spy, she is just an innocent Russian citizen caught up in all this. Until just days before her poisoning she was living with her boyfriend in Russia. Your comments, Richard, may have had a little validity if they had referred to her father. If anything I think you may have swallowed some CIA propaganda, as the facts from fairly reliable Western sources (BBC, CNN, Guardian etc) are exactly as I stated.

Any suspicions could so easily have been assuaged through a short televised interview – why has HMG not allowed or even encouraged this?

[blacklion1725]

Have to delcare an interest here as I’ve been to Russia 3 times in the last 18 months and love the place. Mainly for WW2 historical purposes, but have made and remained friends with a number of Russians -mainly in the Volgograd (ex-Stalingrad) area in the south.

What I don’t get, is if Russia had wanted to kill this Spy, why would they make such a messy botch of it, and why would they do it months before their own World Cup where they are determined to present a modern, progressive Russia to the world. Forgetting the moral arguments, surely if it was them they would do it better and at a different time. Just doesn’t make sense to me at all.

From a UK Government point of view it has been a (very convenient) distraction from some of the dreadful homegrown news.

 

 

[tadka]

I haven’t watched any news only heard snippets here and there and frankly I have no sympathy for any spy. But what I find curious is why that spy is not dead? Do any of you guys know the sequence of events after he collapsed on the bench? The expected sequence of events in my opinion would be as follows – he collapses, an ambulance is called, he gets taken to the hospital, if he is not dead yet they take blood samples to do tests and do whatever it is they do to keep him alive. Now the question is how long would it take them to find out that it was the Novichock poison? Hours? Days? Never? Lets say they found out within hours. Only at that point would the action be taken – men in “space suits” called, Police informed which in turn would inform secret services and the government. Do any of you guys know how long after Skripal collapsed men in “space suits” arrived at the scene? If they arrived immediately then that would indicate a conspiracy. But if not then the conspiracy is much less likely.

[Ed P]

According to the Daily Mirror the Police almost immediately called a major emergency and some short time after said it was a nerve agent. Other sources say that the talk of nerve agent only started after they had had first responder treatment (not the policeman) and the pair had been taken to hospital. No decent timeline such as the one you require has been published, but all agree on the times shown by the Mirror  for ‘The Mill’ and ‘Zizzis’.

link

CNN raised the first lot of major question marks. CNN report

[Richard]

Does Putin believe she is innocent or more to the point would he care?

No and No.

Can he expected to use anyone he could any way he could? Yes and yes with bells on.

For easy reference this is what I wrote about the conspiracy theory band wagon, note the reference to a visit from a family member, not a companion spy.

If a UK ex-spy had defected to Russia, then lived happily until a member of his family visited and both were poisoned allegedly by the UK we would ‘expect’ to be given free access as the suspected murder force. Is that what some actually believe?

Sorry but if you believe we should, let alone would be given access in that case, then you are welcome to that belief, just do not expect me to agree, no CIA required. Having spent periods of time in hospital in a foreign country in the past, I wanted peace and quiet as soon as possible, e.g. after my month’s confinement with a very tricky broken lower leg portion, – fact.

Being well enough to be released from an acute care establishment is not the same as fully recovered a ‘fact’ that appears to have been swept aside. Still look on the bright side, she is not bed blocking!

I am not privy to CIA thinking, nor do I wish to be either. I spoke solely of my view of very unusual circumstances. I have not stooped to suggesting you are falling for Putin’s FSB lines, please do not assign false motives to me.

This is not the first Eastern Block originated poisoning, e.g. those carried out in London on Markov, and the more recent polonium case being two well known facts.

Plausible deniability was once a fact, now we have the distorted reality of the internet where facts no longer matter and everyone can be an instant armchair theorist.

[Richard]

I have reread the BBC accounts, nothing I read is in any way in conflict with what I wrote. To clarify a quote reads:

‘The hospital said: “This is not the end of her treatment but marks a significant milestone.”‘

The BBC also suggested that the headache of dealing with any ongoing issues including diplomatic fall out, was one that the UK would be happy to reduce and preferably avoid. A ‘fact’ with which I would have no trouble agreeing.

[tadka]

Ed P wrote:

 link CNN raised the first lot of major question marks. CNN report

After reading this I’d say it doesn’t look like a conspiracy to me. I suppose because the Policeman was poisoned too things were taken more seriously. It was days until serious action was taken which indicates that there was no advanced knowledge of the incident. Though the entire story is fishy indeed.

[The Duke]

The hole thing stinks, the PM should apologise to putin and the Russian people. Then if they can actually find any evidence and link it to Russia with out any reasonable doubt, then and only then confront them again.

I still think it was an ex work colleague with the hump. Live by the sword die by it. You don’t get to retire when you are/was a spy.

Death is a work place hazard,  in that line of work.

I did like the Russian response, not sure who said it and if they had any official capacity, “if we did it,  it would be clean and done proper” or words to that effect.

[Author]

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