Salisbury – Conspiracy Theorists Heaven

[Ed P]

Unlike the jingoistic UK press (declaring cyberwar on Russia!), CNN has a very balanced opinion piece.

I find the whole affair really puzzling. Why would Russia even bother to get this aging ex(?) spy, and why now? As many have pointed out it would have been very easy to arrange an accident while he was in a Russian jail. Perhaps we should be seeking out those who will win from the incident.

Even the hospitalisation of the police sergeant is puzzling. Why was he affected but none of the first responders (who actually gave CPR to the victims) have been reported as being affected.

If it was a nerve agent why bring in the Army to look for evidence when nearby Porton Down is full of nerve agent experts and cutting edge detection equipment?

All very puzzling and as CNN posits the truth is elusive, but good for a great conspiracy theory.

[Richard]

The recent reports say that the policeman who has been affected was searching the house. It has been suggested that the agent that has affected all three might have been delivered to the house with various speculative mechanisms being touted usually by those with no idea anyway.

The USE believes that 14 suspicious deaths of ex Russians might have been at the swing of a foreign hand, an idea made more believable by Moscow TV issuing veiled threats against anyone who is seen as a threat to (poisonous)* Russia.

Nerve agents are not usually freely available to ‘ordinary’ folk. ‘Sarin R Us ‘is not listed in any readily available directory.

Is there anyone who does not believe that the poisonous dwarf Tzar Putin, the recently gay icon would not support murdering anyone he does not like?

*More accurate translation provided.

 

[Bob Williams]

I really do not understand who would “win from the incident” Ed. The CNN assumption here* is that some form of organised Russian crime, or some ex FSB figure(s) affected by the defector, are responsible.

*It is also an assumption that Putin is behind it. Since he is of course ex-FSB himself, that is just as reasonable an assumption as any.

The whole double agent philosophy of these Russian defectors, is one of self-interest. Why should a Russian defector to the USA, decide to live in the UK anyway? This is a messy, murky affair. And “Putin loves Europe”? That one really amuses me, whoever wrote the CNN script is obviously pro-Russian, and it is a long way from a balanced view. Putin is a dangerous, power-fixated megalomaniac who wants a return to what he sees as the glory days of the Soviet Socialist Republics, even as he takes a decidedly right wing stance. He blames and hates the West for bringing down Communism and the end of Soviet rule across so much of Europe. He wants it back, beginning with the nations so recently freed from domination, such as Ukraine.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Ed P]

Actually Richard any competent rogue chemist (such as those that illegally brew amphetamines) could safely make Sarin. This was amply demonstrated on the Tokyo subway attack by Aum Shinrikyo some thirteen years ago. The hardest part would be getting the chemical precursors without arousing suspicion.

In any criminal case, motive is one of the main elements that require to be ascertained. I see no logical motive for Putin to want to get involved. Superficially this man is of no further interest to the Russian Government.  ‘Revenge’ eight years after his spy-swap makes no logical sense.

I believe the most likely perpetrators are not those of the Russian State but more likely ex-colleagues seeking revenge or maybe MacMafia contacts as it has been hinted that he has been spending a lot of time overseas (particularly Malta).

[Bob Williams]

Revenge is a dish best served cold, Ed.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Richard]

Ed, I realise that you would do anything to protect Tzar Putin, but what about the other 14 dodgy deaths of Russian outcasts  in UK, not the mention the wholesale killings back home?

We do need to be rather more skilled and careful at dealing with really unpleasant items like him.

[Ed P]

I know nothing factual about the other 14 deaths, so I cannot make an intelligent comment.

I was just relaying US comments about the Skripal case. Other US comments are of a similar vein – puzzlement.

Btw this was Amber Rudds statement on the Police Sergeant:

““The officer was one of the first responders on Sunday, acting selflessly to help others,” the Home Secretary said.

She obviously has a different definition from me on what ‘first responder’ means.

[Spedley]

Early morning on the BBC there was a bloke discussing news stories and he seemed clued up.  He said that Russia is not like the UK and that getting hold small quantities of Nerve agents through bribery or corruption etc would very possible.  He also said that the victim has crossed at least 300 ‘spies’, potentially having links to nerve agent suppliers.
He didn’t say it wasn’t Russia, just that there is a strong possibility that Putin wasn’t aware of it.

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[dwynnehugh]

I think what has been shown here and in some 14? other similar Russian defector type incidents, whether this is linked to Russia or otherwise, the message is very clear to any defector or double agent or ‘traitor’ – the home country can and will flush you out anywhere in the world and can/will extract retribution.

Not only does this send a very clear message to others in similar positions worldwide but to others at home (wherever that might be) who are thinking of doing the same thing.

The more you meet people the more you understand why Noah took animals instead of humans

[Richard]

dwynnehugh That is the problem when you allow free flow of bullying peasants from such backward bigoted dumb places as Tsar Putin land.

Why the heck does anyone try to do any business with thug Russia, let alone rely on them for critical energy supplies? Could it just be stupidity by many in Europe?

[Ed P]

Richard you could substitute most of the Middle East and many other countries for your comments. Money and morals rarely make good bed-fellows.

[Alan Wood]

Got to reluctantly agree with Ed P. There are very few really democratic, corruption free countries around the world.

Without energy from Russia there would be real problems in the western world.

[Ed P]

I see that after making statements of there being no-risk to the general public, users of The Mill and Zizzis in Salisbury are now being told to wash everything they had that day. Beeb report

I just hope that the authorities are using a specific test rather than a generic test for organo-phosphorus compounds otherwise every establishment that has ever treated for cockroaches is going to test positive!

[Richard]

It would be wise to reconsider for anyone thinking of visiting the football bash scheduled for a little later. the combination of air travel and Russia and its known bands of thugs gearing up for repeats of previous battles should make for interesting times of the wrong kind.

Ed, yes the Middle East (or as some used to term it the muddled beast) is considerably more unstable than it ever was with Iran trying to dominate the Muslim world with its Shia empire dreams and its tendency to play proxy wars out with the Sunni side on any turf it can occupy. Often known as being Shia agony on the Sunni side of the street, (referring to the Gulf as a street). The Shias were often very uncomfortable on the Saudi, (Sunni) side of the Gulf.

Alan I venture to suggest that there are already considerable problems caused by using Russian energy. Most of Europe are right where Putin wants them, beholden to his call. I well remember the Greeks tried to play the Russia card when they were having a bit of trouble with the German Finance Ministry. To become reliant on an unstable and undesirable like Russia is to mortgage yourself and your country to an unwanted, but currently unwisely accepted set of risks. Why else would Russia be so keen to sow doubt in other countries and use tools like the anti fracking mobs, sometimes trading on the so call ‘anti establishment’ anarchist lot.

[Ed P]

Interesting Richard – how do you square your statements with the very large donations the Conservative Party happily accepted from Russians?

[Richard]

Very easily, one off donations/gifts/whatever four years ago are not mortgaging your country’s future to an ongoing dependency that could be and has been cut off in the past Is there any equivalence, except that similar gifts have been made to all parties. My comments related to the considerably less open, i.e. clandestine ‘gifts’ that have been handed out to those with a malign agenda. Are you happy with them?

[The Duke]

The middle is is ****** cos of us, poking our noses in in the name of “freedom”.

Russia, not the best of the places in the west, but if we didn’t keep poking the bear, he wouldn’t be growling. There is a massive anti Russia campaign been going on since Putin rightly higlighed both us and Americas was supporting an illegal uprising.

Does anyone remember when Assad and wish wife was the darlings of Hollywood, governments praising their secular state, and highlighting it as a beacon of light for the region. Then they decided to upset Saudi so the got the yanks to do their bidding.

There is an official minute of some document, iirc Dick Chainy (the vp of the time, I’m terrible with names), on record said paraphrasing , Saudi will cover the cost of getting rid of Assad. 6 months later the press propaganda wagon went into overdrive.

I don’t understand how people  think our gov and the Americans are any better than any other nation state.

We are basically mushrooms. Fed shit from the square box in the corner and the red tops. Sadly most people don’t question this shit, and take it as gospel cos the bbc and the mirror said so!

And about this Russian guy, i don’t really care either way, and we will find out the truth in 40 years in some MPs biography .

Given he was locked up in Russia for a good while, there was plenty of time to ‘get rid of him’, it was probably one of the many spies he outed, but that wont stop us linking it back to the Russian state, just so its another stick to beat them with.

[Ed P]

Richard only as you poke me when I cannot be bothered to respond.

No, I dislike political corruption in all shades, whether via monetary gifts or post-event speaking fees. In my ideal world all politicians or public servants would be subject to regular audits of their and their family’s wealth both in and out of office. I’d throw the book at them Singaporean-style including seizure of all assets for any detected anomalies or questionable off-shore arrangements.

Corruption stinks and I have seen its full malign impact in places like Africa.

[Richard]

Steve I guess you are referring to the dodgy situation of Crimea when the Russia puppet in the Ukraine changed his mind about dealing with the EU, the people revolted and Putin erupted with an illegal annexation. The sad history of that area is riven by peoples with long memories including those of the Tartars who were force-ably ejected back in Stalin’s time. There is a long history of issues in that area without needing any one external to stir the pot – by the way Putin was an external meddler…

As for the mess of the Middle East. I went there in 1972 to a location that was Sunni ruled but with a large Shia population and an uneasy state of balance between the two. Previously the UK had a good understanding of the area but over a period of time the diplomatic capability was run down, less understanding existed and the US tried to grow a capability, they are still trying to grow one and apparently failing dismally. At the time the Sha of Iran was in charge of Iran and Iran was essentially forward looking and progressing. I went there in 1975 it was a stressful place at the time. You felt you were always being watched by thousands of eyes, but it was a reasonably progressive one might well say thriving place, though with some of the worst driving standards I have ever seen. Three accidents on the road out side during the course of a meal was normal, five either indicated slow food service or a bad day on the roads. Then the retrogressive religious mob took over and the whole semi stable balance of the beehive was lost. Largely Shia Iran wanted to control the Gulf, which they referred to as the Persian not Arabian Gulf. They worked quite hard to send their revolution westward toward Saudi. That they were thwarted at the time is a matter of history. Recently they moved into the Yeman and stirred up a mess there to distract Saudi from Iran’s moves into more northern areas. Iran was a participant of a punch up with Iraq. Then Sadam Hussain went on the rampage invading Kuwait, trashing the place and trying to wreak its future. He was repulsed in the first Gulf war, but sadly not replaced as there was no planning done for the outcome of the war. By that time I had left the location so took less notice of its affairs and no longer had any hands on contacts.

You can claim that such as the Balfour declaration of 1926 was pivotal or the the overthrow of the Turkish rule of the Saudi peninsula or any of a range of other issues was the cause. The reality was that such as Dick Chainy came a long time after most dies were cast. He was possibly responding to forces that were not really understood due to the dearth of diplomatic support in the area. As for the position of Syria, Putin wanted a Mediterranean all weather port and Assad gave him one, a point that was in all reality not fully accounted for in the miscalculation of the ‘diplomats’ in the area. The belief that a few stone throwing zealots could win against the combined forces of two people butchers was a classic error. A smoking ruin where Syria once stood is a testament to the combined failures of everyone’s miscalculations. However do remember that the disagreements between the tribes and religious forces of the areas will, forever simmer. It has happened everywhere across the area. being played out in the remains of Libya and many others. They have generally been kept in relative balance by playing them to a stalemate with a strong person in charge, whenever that lid cracks mayhem will result without the need for anything external. So yes the Middle East with its corrupted Satan worshipping minorities will be a cause of trouble for a long time. The daft idea of letting the ill will of those Satan worshipping minorities be exported to Europe was in hindsight a really dumb move. They have failed in their original breading grounds and now their contagion has spread, all because it was ‘cheaper’ not to have a diplomatic service that could not find a light switch let alone change a light bulb to illuminate their developing mess.

I would still not ever set foot in or near Russia, nor would I wish to trade or deal with them. I did have some dealings with them pre-Putin and a more perfidious, lawless bunch it would be hard to find. I refused to suggest doing any business there. The wanted it on the basis that we would invest and they could keep the money and goods with full (Russian) legal backing. Others were slightly more sanguine but the whole idea fell apart due to other issues – and a dose of reality.

[JayCeeDee]

Ed P wrote:

No, I dislike political corruption in all shades, whether via monetary gifts or post-event speaking fees. In my ideal world all politicians or public servants would be subject to regular audits of their and their family’s wealth both in and out of office. I’d throw the book at them Singaporean-style including seizure of all assets for any detected anomalies or questionable off-shore arrangements.

In my mind new MP’s are just Non-Executive Directors in waiting!! I totally agree with the oversight perspective you state above. Signing permissions for that process should be a part of every MP’s application form/vetting process!!

[Author]

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