Off with his head!

[Dave Rice]

They may only have to wait a year.

Listening to the DUP this afternoon they have been run over by a bus which has then reversed back and forth. Customs documents between NI and the mainland? Almost all the businesses affected are small ones. The Chancellor is refusing to do an impact study. I wonder why?

I don’t much like the DUP and anything they stand for but they have been royally shafted along with the rest of NI. I fear Ed may be right and the Union will split under the strain, now both sides hate us.

Expect more devils in the detail they don’t want us to see. It’s not over yet by a long way.

[Bob Williams]

A mess that gets messier every single day. What an odorous, stinking pile of ordure this whole Brexit process has become. We have gone from a respected, honourable nation to divided, argumentative, quarrelsome cliques in less than a decade. The Union that was the United Kingdom, that gave the world so much and created so much, including good government, is now totally broken. It is the end of something that was an example to the world and is now the worst example the world could want to emulate.

My poor country, to become much poorer as a result of not enough people able to understand what effect the Brexit process will finally have upon them.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The VFM Addict]

Your country was gone in or out of the EU, Bob.    There will be only one country in Europe if the EU has its own way; The USofE.     One army, one foreign policy, one fiscal policy, etc., etc.    And the EU will turn its back on violent suppression.    The EU Parliament voted not to even discuss the violent suppression of the last month in Catalonia.    There is no right of self-determination in the EU.    Yet so many people cannot see that or where the EU is heading.   Dissent will not be tolerated.    Do we or will we ever treat Scotland like Spain treats Catalonia?   I think not.       The illusion of democracy in the EU is on a far larger scale than it is even in the UK.    I want no part of what the EU is inexorably becoming.     If freedom from it costs us financially so be it; although in the mid to long term I doubt it will.    I will not put a price on freedom and self-determination.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

Do you not see it even now, Bob?    The EU in the person of Tusk is ‘telling’ the 27 to grant an extension.   The stick wielded against all states, other than France and Germany, is that if they don’t agree they will be breaking EU solidarity.   The EU ‘directs’ it is NOT directed by its member states.    That is where the power sits and will continue to be centralised.    There is no democracy in such.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Dave Rice]

You seem to have totally forgotten the past Troubles which makes Catalonia look like a picnic. We were EU members then. How are we treating them now? Have we imposed any contentious laws on them in the past week? Have they been used as the bargaining chip to promote the PMs personal ambitions? I can’t see anyone in NI is happy and it could well lead to extreme violence. I don’t see any guns in Barcelona, we’ve had far worse riots in London over far less.

Tusk is not a dictator, it’s not an edict. It’s a recommendation which needs to be approved. As you keep reminding us when it suits, it can be scuppered by a single country.

[The VFM Addict]

Dave, I agree we have had riots in London over far less but we have not reacted with Police violence of the kind seen in Catalonia, have we?   And would our Parliament have voted to not even discuss those riots as the EU Parliament voted?

Returning to the matter of an extension; Yes it can be scuppered by a single state but would any other than France or Germany realistically dare do so, even if it desired to?     I cannot help but feel you in part make my point for me when you talk of past troubles in Spain.    Had it been any country outside the EU we would have spoken out but as an EU member we did not?   Why was that?

Throwing the DUP/N.I. under the bus was needed.  Just the same as moving Workers Rights to the PD from the WA was needed.   I keep telling you ‘the plan’ was/is to alienate as many people as possible to the deal; such that they pile on amendment after amendment during its passage.

It seems that what I said was ‘BoJo’s plan’  may very slowly be dawning on the EU also.    As the BBC’s Katya Adler tweeted yesterday;

EU diplomat from influential member state said to me: “What game is being played here? Boris Johnson tells us, tells everyone he just wants to get #Brexit done. But now he halts the legislative process with 10 days till the deadline still to go.”

Perhaps, the EU should listen to Ed and realise they are dealing with ‘The Mendacious one’.   😂

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[JayCeeDee]

The VFM Addict wrote:

Perhaps, the EU should listen to Ed and realise they are dealing with ‘The Mendacious one’.   😂

The problem is that there’s so much spin coming from Boris’s camp ( and everywhere else, these days, ) they’d tell you that ‘mendacious’ was a way of describing an audacious man – and half the country would believe it!!!🙃😋

[The VFM Addict]

Having re-read your post Dave I see that you could have been referring to the “past Troubles” in N.I.    But I am unconvinced that the increased incidence of late in N.I. terrorist activities is Brexit linked because the surge began even before the Ref vote.    I suspect the increase derives of a new generation which did not live through the earlier troubles and are vulnerable to the same mantras (from both sides) as were earlier generations.   Note the “gap” is almost precisely a generation.   To think the current re-growth would dissipate if we suddenly revoked Art50 and remained in the EU to me seems totally unrealistic.   I do accept though that Brexit might be used as “justification” by those involved; I just can’t see though that resolving it would change anything. Those bent on conflict will simply pick and rely on another “justification”.     Perhaps just perhaps we should explore “exporting” the problem and allow N.I. a vote on reunification on the island of Ireland.   But note I say “export” because I doubt that even that would end the conflict.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

@JayCeeDee, too true matey.   The public will buy anything.    Great swathes of the UK even seem to have bought these two conflicting positions  –

Remainers in 2016: ‘Honestly guys the #EU barely affects your lives. Hardly any laws even come from Brussels’

Remainers in 2019: ‘We are so enmeshed it is IMPOSSIBLE to leave. If we crash out there will be famine and no workers’ rights or drinking water’

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

At a tangent I think that Labour are increasingly isolated.    The SNP and LibDems would love an early election as would the Tories.      A simple majority to repeal the FTP Act is not inconceivable.

 

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Ed P]

The VFM Addict wrote:

but we have not reacted with Police violence of the kind seen in Catalonia, have we?

I’m not sure that the Miners would agree with that, and neither would the newspaper seller who was killed, or those killed in custody. I would however agree that there have been less such incidents in recent years, though the police cavalry involved in student kettling in 2010 came close. link.

Maybe I’m wrong but I do not think the UK Parliament ever discussed the student kettling with any degree of sympathy! wiki

I’m not getting at the UK police as they are much better at crowd control than their Continental equivalents. I certainly would not want to be anywhere near a group of French CRS riot police for example. Evidence shows that where UK police actions have been undesirable in retrospect, that often they were acting under direct Home Office  or Prime Minister orders (Miners Strike and Kettling).

I think you made Dave’s point in that our MEPs never discussed the internal affairs of other EU states  and neither did they discuss ours. Internal affairs other than disaster response are not within the remit of the EU Parliament, and that is why EU regulations only set out minimum standards and allow member states to tighten them up as our Parliament seemed to do without fail!

With respect to an extension, the EU will agree because they would not want any blame for the disaster that would befall the UK in the event of a Hard Brexit. The only question is duration, but my guess is that they will give exactly what we asked as any other response looks like the duplicitous gamesmanship that Johnson plays.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

I really don’t think the FTP act is going anywhere soon.

If the opposition don’t think they can win an election then they think it is in their interest to keep this minority government in place so they can thwart any plans Borris has for business other than Brexit.

I think that will make them unpopular with the public but at least they get to have a say for a few more years.

If Borris does win the next election with a working majority I can’t see him being in any hurry to repeal the FTP act either.

[JayCeeDee]

The VFM Addict wrote:

I think that Labour are increasingly isolated

I think that should be “….I think that Labour have increasingly isolated themselves.”

They couldn’t have done a better job of scuppering themselves had they tried. They’ve done the Tories job for them.

My current quandary is who is going to get my vote when the GE finally comes.

1. Labour – not so long as Momentum has their hand up JC’s jacket. Come back New Labour/Tony Blair – all is ( almost ) forgiven.
2. Conservative – no way – short term memory is still functioning!!
3. LibDem  – who could admit they fell for/believed that what was in their manifesto would be implemented.
4. UKIP/Brexit Party – one-trick pony, after all you wouldn’t put a David Beckham/Gazza in charge of a bank, let alone a country, just because they were top class footballers.
5. Greens – I agree with their aims, or at least the concept, but another one trick pony.
6. Screaming Lord Sutch/ Raving Loony Party – that’s almost descriptive of the whole Parliament currently in situ.

It’s going to be difficult to decide.😓

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Speeking of “Off with his head” what’s happening with the scotish court action against Borris ? He more or less sent the letter I dictated for hin earlier and the EU have accepted it, they seem set to respond with the letter I dictated for them too.

It don’t look like we are going to be able to lock Borris up in the clock tower so why hasn’t the case been dropped ?

[Ed P]

Unfortunately Screaming Lord Sutch – 3rd Earl of Harrow has been elevated to a far higher plane (June 1999) so we will need to seek other trustworthy worthies.

If Labour had Andy Burnham as leader I would certainly vote for them, as he has done wonders in the ways he has fought for improvements in Manchester, and would be infinitely more trustworthy than Johnson (labelled as a filthy piece of toerag by one of his constituents!).

[JayCeeDee]

Ed P wrote:

Unfortunately Screaming Lord Sutch – 3rd Earl of Harrow has been elevated to a far higher plane (June 1999) so we will need to seek other trustworthy worthies.

Yes, I remember that – I just needed an appropriate name for my contention that followed, that linked the Lords and the Commons in general stupidity.

If Labour had Andy Burnham as leader I would certainly vote for them, as he has done wonders in the ways he has fought for improvements in Manchester, and would be infinitely more trustworthy than Johnson

Likewise.

On a side note, if Scotland did gain its Independence, would we just re-instate Hadrians Wall as the ‘border’ and would that satisfy the EU, or would we need another backstop?? Also would the Houses be rid of Scottish accents ( discounting SNP ) as there seems to be an inordinate amount of them from all camps.

I’ve noticed this more and more as whenever Ian Blackford stands up, I reach for the mute button on the remote.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

There wouldn’t be an EU boarder with Scotland JCD because the EU has said they are not interested in having an independent Scotland in the EU. More trouble they cold do without.

[Bob Williams]

There is no point in my continuing here. There are two contributors who ignore the truth and use hypotheses to make up any argument that suits them. I’m off, with (similar) words that I used last time in the (real) Brexit thread: in the aftermath of our departure from the EU, I will return to tell you where you went wrong in voting Leave. If I am still kicking, that is. I rely on those with a real focus to pass that message, if I am gone.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

And in a year or two after we leave the EU I will welcome your comments Bob. We will be well into the suck it and see period by then and you will be able to say I told you so or not.

I really hope you are around to see it so good health to you 😁

[JayCeeDee]

Wheels-Of-Fire wrote:

There wouldn’t be an EU boarder with Scotland JCD because the EU has said they are not interested in having an independent Scotland in the EU. More trouble they cold do without.

 

It was both rhetorical and tongue-in-cheek, Graham.

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