Forumite Members › General Topics › Motoring › Other Motoring Topics › New MOT rules
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Bob Williams.
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May 19, 2018 at 6:58 pm #20910
In case you don’t know, the MOT rules have a major shake up tomorrow. There are going to be loads of failures from now on IMO, mostly older diesels.
I was behind a 4 year old Golf GTD today and he nailed the throttle and I almost choked. Huge black cloud of particulates. I reckon the DPF was faulty or removed.
It’s good for the environment but what worries me is how many people won’t even bother to have a MOT, knowing the car will fail. I forecast a large increase in illegal vehicles within a few months. I hope I’m wrong.
May 19, 2018 at 9:05 pm #20919With so many ANPR cameras etc. dotted around the road network how long will they last w/o an MOT? Not so long ago the politicians were all urging us to ‘go diesel’ as an alternative to the ‘air polluting petrol engine!!!’
The more you meet people the more you understand why Noah took animals instead of humans
May 19, 2018 at 9:05 pm #20920There were no real changes alleged to have been made rather tightening up of those that should never have passed. The Golf in your example should not be on the road if it was that bad – and I can well believe it was. Quite how it got into that state in 4 years is beyond my understanding, though I guess a total lack of maintenance could produce that sort of problem. In theory vehicles with no MOT should be picked up by ANPR as it is supposed to check for MOT, insurance and car tax. Really old cars might go up in value?
May 19, 2018 at 10:02 pm #20924I was behind a 4 year old Golf GTD today and he nailed the throttle and I almost choked. Huge black cloud of particulates. I reckon the DPF was faulty or removed.
The clouds of black soot are a result of the EGR. The EGR was introduced to reduce NOX levels by making the combustion temperature lower and reduce the levels of the cancer causing (allegedly) NOX. As a result the diesel isn’t being burned properly hence the clouds of black soot out the exhaust pipe. So the DPF was introduced to combat that by catching the soot. To burn off soot in the DPF you have the DPF regeneration where an increased amount of diesel is used to achieve high temperatures required to burn off soot and loads of NOX is created (but we pretend not to know that so that this convoluted system can be justified). Delete the EGR and the DPF, have your ECU remapped to make your engine run as efficiently as possible and the soot is gone. And no MOT failures.
May 19, 2018 at 10:22 pm #20928Perfect technical explanation, Nolan!
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.May 20, 2018 at 12:44 am #20932When I first looked up what the Exhaust Gas Recycler valve does it took me ages to understand it. It’s not quite to reduce the temperature, it is to lower the quantity of oxygen. When the engine is not under load there is more oxygen in the engine than amount of fuel requires which causes Nitrogen to bond with the free Oxygen creating toxic gases. To combat this some of the exhaust gas is fed back into the engine, effectively reducing the cc of the engine.
Most diesels chuck out soot when you put your foot down, in fact it’s quite good for them to do it once in a while!
On another note, petrol is over £1.20 again! Ouch.
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May 20, 2018 at 12:46 am #20933Oh, and yes – I’m not sure my diesel will pass the MOT because of the DPF. I will make sure I take it for a full cycle (drive 60mph in 4th gear for 10 mins according to the manual … or something like that) before I get an MOT.
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May 20, 2018 at 8:22 am #20936If you have ever experienced a brown photochemical smog caused by NOX and particulates quite frankly it does not matter if it is a carcinogen or just an eye and lung irritant, it is b-awful stuff. Luckily we rarely get enough sun in the UK for a true red-brown smog to develop but go to LA or Beijing and even the sparrows cough!
May 20, 2018 at 8:48 am #20940Ed, London in the 1950s was pretty bad from the burning of coal, some of the post war coal was incombustible grim rubbish, it cooked if you were lucky with infrequent bits of flame to burn off the gaseous rubbish. Back then you got the ‘pea suppers’, nothing very ‘supper’ about them. Happily it was before one person buses, so the conductor would walk the bus through junctions as no one could see anything. The death toll was huge even by the standards of the day with thousands taken ill and dying.
EGRs also exist on petrol cars and can cause all sorts of issues with high fuel consumption and erratic running if they stop working correctly.
A well maintained modern diesel should not have a big particulate issue. However, if it spends all its time idling in town it will suffer. I try to use the old (petrol) car for short journeys and the diesel for longer runs where it can easily run at a more optimum speed for a while, that way fuel burning regeneration should not be needed too often, but time will tell.
May 20, 2018 at 9:13 am #20942EGR as a system works fine, so long as it’s all accessible.
Mine were sticking and bringing up an engine light last year. Parts were about £200, but to replace them cost me over £1200!! In their wisdom MB had placed them beneath the exhaust manifold but facing the bulkhead!! It was an engine out job!!
If it hadn’t been for the fact that it went into “Limp home” mode, I might have been tempted to leave them. There are lots of discussions on car forums about whether they’re good or bad or necessary.
May 20, 2018 at 10:24 am #20945This is quite topical for me. I have a 2011 Citroen C4 Grand Picasso with just 50K on the clock. Returning home from Leicester to North Yorkshire a month ago I reached just south of Doncaster when the car shuddered and lost power. I now know it went into limp mode with a message on the display saying possible damage to the DPF. I limped home at about 20-25mph. The next day It started fine and I took it to the local garage who put it on the diagnostic computer. The reading said injector 3 was causing the problem so had that replaced and all seemed fine for a few days then the “Service Light” came on. The car had received a major service at 48.5K so it was not that. Reading up on it revealed it could be a problem with the DPF so back to the garage. They put a camera up the pipe and said the DPF looked a bit sooty and they blew it out. All seemed well for another couple of day when the light kept coming on and resetting. The garage estimated the cost of a genuine Citroen DPF at £1000+ which I could not really justify on a car of that age so on to eBay. Found a few listed for my model starting at just over £100. The listing did say to phone them before ordering with the registration and chassis data which I did. The person who answered was excellent and gave me a search term for a lookup in their eBay shop revealing several options at various prices from which I did finally settling on one at £228 as I did not want to risk the cheapest. I ordered it late Friday afternoon and it was delivered first thing Monday morning. Superb service. The garage fitted it for me and delivered the car back late yesterday afternoon so I am hoping that will be the end of the problem. The car does seem to be more responsive which could be a good sign.
May 20, 2018 at 11:16 am #20946Just as a matter of record Richard NOx wasn’t the big problem with the yellow London smogs – it was SOx. The clean air act concentrated on moves towards ‘clean’ coal which in essence pushed us towards using lower sulfur coal and scrubbers at the CEGB plants. It worked, but the reduction in SO2 brought black spot to roses and had the longer term unintended consequence of bringing warmer drier summers. (SO2 aerosols promote cloud formation).
May 20, 2018 at 12:11 pm #20947Ed, while SO2 may well have been a major part the tar and black carbon plus other aspects of really crap combustion of really rubbish fuel in very poor vessels was the real issue for many. Just look at the sooty chimneys where the crap appeared to burn much better than in grates. One of the issues was the very low combustion temperature the open fires sustained, not enough to burn off stuff properly and as you said not hot enough to create NO2. The term photochemical smog became very popular at the time, sometimes the blanket reached higher altitudes and drifted over, turning day into near nights. Great efforts were made to improve combustion with pulverised fuel that could be sprayed into the combustion chamber in an attempt to ensure better combustion and energy recovery, but that produced a range of new issues requiring scrubbing and ash disposal. Its use in construction was heavily promoted, only to find that it was not great in concrete. Chemical reactions could and often did produce disastrous results.
Germany had a real issue with its lignite coals as they are also heavily polluting.
May 20, 2018 at 9:16 pm #20960Germany is actually still mining Lignite from open cast works. This is of course part of the two-faced EU Directives and warnings for the UK about pollution here.
My dad was born in Burslem, mother town of the Potteries and where the industry began, with coal mined from local North Staffordshire pits, China Clay and iron all initially from other local sources. The town was in a deep valley and the surrounding Potteries towns in the Stoke on Trent conurbation, all have to descend a steep hill to enter the town. The photo shows what it was like to live and work there for my granddad and the 8 out of his 13 surviving children, who grew up there. My dad had Ricketts (lack of sunshine & Vitamin D) and all 3 of his sons inherited it in some form. Big brother wore leg irons to around 8 years of age, as did I. Middle brother’s legs were bowed. Pic is of Burslem in 1920’s, family lived somewhere in there on St. John Street.

In 1926 my parents married, in the middle of the General Strike. Dad walked with his brother, my uncle Jack, to a new pit opened by Lord Newstead, in the village of Blidworth* Notts, which is where I grew up. The village pit was high on one of the 3 hills, but we lived at the bottom of the valley. Growing up in the 40’s to the 70’s, in an NCB estate, meant coal fires in at least 2 rooms and coal fired cooking. Down in the valley, it was not too bad, as in the early decades the miners’ coal allowance came from the local pit and Blidworth pit had hard coal from a very deep seam. Then the NCB had a brainwave and decided to have a “Coal Pool” system, which meant transporting each pit’s share of the allowance to a central depot, then trucking it out to each village. The logistics and economics of this change, tell you all you need to know about the administration of the NCB.
Entering the Dale where we lived, from any one of 3 hills and 3 roads on a winters’ day, showed a haze of smoke over the village. But the worst days were the wash days: miners’ wives became adept at watching for wind direction on the morning of Wash day! If the wind blew from the south, SE or SW, the pit boiler chimneys, and all the house chimneys behind our house, would send smuts and smoke all over the washing. I learned some choice language at an early age from my mother…
Probably because of his early life, my dad would walk miles in the country around the village, often taking me with him. It’s from dad that I got my love of the countryside and we both learned about local fauna and flora, by observing, then going to the library to look up what we saw. It’s where I learned to “talk” with birds such as Thrushes and Blackbirds, by whistling back to them. Since I got my new hearing aids and can hear the little feathered buggas again, here in my Lincolnshire village, I have taken this up again. Some neighbours are convinced that I am losing it, others actually come out to listen. I don’t give a damn what anyone else thinks, I just love doing it.
*Ironically, in the 60’s and 70’s, Blidworth was called ‘Smoky Town’ by truckers who drove through it. Incidentally, the word “Pothole” comes from the holes dug in the horrible roads of 18th century North Staffs, to obtain China Clay. Josiah Wedgewood lost so much of his produce to broken cartwheels, that he helped finance the Etruria Canal, a link to the Trent & Mersey. He built a Canal Port at Etruria, to take his pots to Liverpool and out to the world.
Another history lesson, guys!
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.May 20, 2018 at 9:23 pm #20961I think the EU directives are relative rather than specific and relate to a percentage reduction in emissions rather than their specific sources. Germany had a disproportionate number of coal power stations in the 90’s when the targets were set and as such it appears to have slightly laxer rules. This just isn’t really true, there is no way we’d want to start burning coal again, it just isn’t as good as other sources of fuel.
Not two-faced directives, just one rule for all – some you win, some you lose.
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May 21, 2018 at 2:22 pm #20979I moving from diesel this year, the war has officially started against them. My late 2015 car cane even enter London with out a double charge!
Re fuel prices, have you noticed diesel is now creeping away from petrol. Also by August if crude keeps going petrol will hit about 1.44 and diesel about 1.49!
So yay for my plans 4000mile trip around EU. Though I’ll be surprised if the fence has let their diesel break £1. Last summer it was 91p on average petrol about £1.15.
We may mock the French, but they can organise a protest and strike.
May 21, 2018 at 3:01 pm #20980Steve, if the wife is with you there’s no congestion charge, after you’ve registered, for blue badge holders.
May 21, 2018 at 3:14 pm #20981Yes, we have that, as we went lady year a couple of times and forum out after our first time. My comment was more to highlight even modern diesels are being caught up in the scheme that is ment to push 15 year old diesels out of the city.
I was amazed when I checked mine on the website to see I’d have to pay the ULE tax. Thought it is a diesel that’s knocking on 200bhp. But still…..
May 21, 2018 at 5:40 pm #20986Though we have the petrol car, the diesel is considered OK by TFL as it is a Euro 6. However the absence of a reason to visit London, plus a desire to avoid it means that ever driving there is highly unlikely.
May 21, 2018 at 5:52 pm #20987Bob, my mother’s family was out in the country just outside of Bristol and she used to talk wistfully about her time there with her dog, Mick. Something happened during the depression and they moved into the city and she never really spoke about that time or the subsequent interval in her ‘new home’. Grandfather was a chartered engineer and had been a ship’s engineer at the time of the time of the San Francisco earth quake. Then when he married and up to the depression was a hospital engineer. My grand parents initially along with five kids lived in the little house there until the end of their time, while the area went sliding down hill. My Father’s family lived a little way distant from the docks where grandfather was a tally clerk. So country connections were none too clearly established. Blow me down not a lot to do with MOTs there!
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