Mines bigger than yours

[Dave Rice]

Put all the fixed cameras in today. PTZs go up tomorrow.

I’ll see if I can get some screenshots as the view is spectacular. It’s on the southern edge of the Cotswolds, right on the edge of the escarpment, over looking Dyson’s modest home – Dodington Park.

[wasbit]

Dave Rice wrote:

I found these Passive Power over Ethernet PoE Adapter Injector + Splitters for a fiver that let you do it. Work a treat with my camera tester.

Just for future reference, will these work at the far end if powered by a desktop PoE switch such as the D-Link DES-1008PA that you recommended?

 

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Regards
wasbit

Rig 1: Optiplex 3050 SFF
Rig 2: Asus ROG G20CB (rebuilt wreck)
Rig 3: HP Elitebook 8440P

Dear Starfleet, hate you, hate the Federation, taking Voyager. - Janeway

[wasbit]

Can’t find an edit option so double post.

Might have half answered my own question … works with Axis brand IP cameras which are PoE capable but doesn’t work with Storage Solutions & Wanscam which are not PoE.

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Regards

wasbit

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Regards
wasbit

Rig 1: Optiplex 3050 SFF
Rig 2: Asus ROG G20CB (rebuilt wreck)
Rig 3: HP Elitebook 8440P

Dear Starfleet, hate you, hate the Federation, taking Voyager. - Janeway

[Ed P]

The TP-LINK TL-POE200 is the converse, it only works with non-PoE kit. Cheap & cheerful but works well. link

[Dave Rice]

No it wouldn’t work with a PoE switch or injector for two reasons.

When cameras are powered directly it’s (usually) 12v. The idea with the passive splitters is that at one end you plug in the RJ45 to your switch and plug the cameras 12v (or whatever) wall wart to the power socket on the lead. The 12v is then put down the 2 unused pairs of the Ethernet cable. At the other end it’s split out again so that the Ethernet only carries data and the power is supplied by a plug.

So if you ignored the first splitter and plugged an Ethernet cable into a PoE socket, at the other end the power is split off from the data. That power is 48v so you couldn’t use it to power the camera directly.

So these splitters are used to carry power over most of an Ethernet cable run to a non PoE camera. It’s an old trick from the analogue world where you have a coax and power cable at either end, but the middle bit is an Ethernet cable. Converters do the mixing of power and conversion of coax to Ethernet and back again at the other end.

Didn’t get chance to get some screen shots as a duff (new) patch cable caused endless intermittent problems with one of the PTZs. But we’re going back on Wednesday as he wants a couple more cameras being impressed with what we’ve done already.

[wasbit]

Thanks Dave.

The plugs on the injectors are 5.5/2.1 mm but the power sockets on the cameras are 3.5/1.3mm.

For some reason the IP camera wouldn’t work when I tried the injectors with some plug adaptors & I didn’t feel like going up & down the ladder numerous times trouble shooting.

I thought I might have had a duff pair of injectors but now that I’ve changed cameras & can run the old ones in the comfort of the living room both the KK Moon & Wanscam cameras ran fine when powered by injectors similar to the ones linked to.

—
Regards
wasbit

--
Regards
wasbit

Rig 1: Optiplex 3050 SFF
Rig 2: Asus ROG G20CB (rebuilt wreck)
Rig 3: HP Elitebook 8440P

Dear Starfleet, hate you, hate the Federation, taking Voyager. - Janeway

[Dave Rice]

Those Axis cameras use non standard power packs for powering them directly. However I’ve never had any issues with them over PoE.

Don’t forget that the splitters I linked to do not provide PoE to the camera, just PoE over the Ethernet cable between them.

[wasbit]

No problems whatsoever with the Axis cameras, they work when powered under all conditions. It was my old ones that I couldn’t get to work with injectors …. but now they do.

The Axis AC adaptors look pretty standard to me : 5v, 1.5amp with a 3.5/1.3mm plug  against the cheapo 5v, 2amp with a 3.5/1.3mm plug .

Can I throw my limited understanding of PoE at you? I’ve looked but can’t find anything which explains the basics.

Power from an AC adaptor (wall wart) 5v DC, goes into the injector, it travels via two cores (or maybe pairs) of the ethernet cable to the injector at the far end where it exits via the other injector power plug .
Power from a PoE switch does exactly the same at a higher DC voltage. The camera then takes its power directly from the powered ethernet cable rather than the normal input socket.
As I see it, how the power is injected is mainly irrelevant,  it’s whether the camera is capable of accepting it direct from the ethernet cable or if it has to be spit out to go via the power socket – well at least with consumer grade products.

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Regards
wasbit

Rig 1: Optiplex 3050 SFF
Rig 2: Asus ROG G20CB (rebuilt wreck)
Rig 3: HP Elitebook 8440P

Dear Starfleet, hate you, hate the Federation, taking Voyager. - Janeway

[Dave Rice]

5v, that’s what I meant by “non standard”. Cameras of  that grade are normally 12v.

Yes your understanding of PoE is quite correct. Which is why 5v is odd and normally only seen on consumer cameras. I think it’s something to do with 48 being a multiple of 12 that makes it easier.

For 10/100 PoE uses Pins 7,8+ and 4,5- (Mode B). There is a Mode A, which is like the phantom power used in microphones, and uses the data pairs. Gigabit is different again, but 10/100 Mode B is all really we need to think about.

[Richard]

Dave Rice wrote:

5v, that’s what I meant by “non standard”. Cameras of that grade are normally 12v. Yes your understanding of PoE is quite correct. Which is why 5v is odd and normally only seen on consumer cameras. I think it’s something to do with 48 being a multiple of 12 that makes it easier. For 10/100 PoE uses Pins 7,8+ and 4,5- (Mode B). There is a Mode A, which is like the phantom power used in microphones, and uses the data pairs. Gigabit is different again, but 10/100 Mode B is all really we need to think about.

I assume that POE is not compatible with 1 Gig Ethernet as the wires would be used ‘for other purposes’ or is there a work around to allow it to still work, possibly with special connections’?

[Dave Rice]

Yes it is compatible. it uses the concept known as “phantom power” in the world of microphones. Electricity and data operate at opposite ends of the frequency spectrum so don’t get in each others way.

The video explains PoE better than I can https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31ml_ngJZs4

[Ed P]

Most PoE kit does not really need gigabyte speeds. Excluding of course the humongous 7K resolution of the camera that Dave referenced in an earlier post!

PoE kit and equipment is an area where it pays to read the small print in the specs before purchasing as not all kit is compatible with the chosen injectors/spltters. In fact the latest PoE standard for gigabyte systems includes a start-up communication phase that could actually damage incompatible kit – say for example old passive PoE kit stuck on the end of a modern injector/splitter system..

[Dave Rice]

Like all aspects of IT it can be a minefield when you go into all the options, but most have no place here.

Simple rules in my book for the CCTV cameras anyone here is likely to buy, and that includes me.

1. If the CCTV camera can be powered via PoE that is the preferred method. If you have more than two cameras then a PoE switch will be more cost effective (an 8-Port 10/100 Desktop Switch w/ 4x PoE Ports is £46 vs an 802.3af power injector is £15+). 10/100 is fine, but if it’s the only switch on your network then an extra tenner gets you an 8-Port Desktop Gigabit Switch w/ 4x PoE Ports.
2. If you can only directly power a camera and it’s too far from the mains then use a Power Over Ethernet PoE Injector & Splitter Kit and the wall wart supplied with the camera (£5).
3. If it’s any other PoE device RTFM.

[keith with the teef]

Blimey now thats what I call a spur.

Hey Davey Ravy gravey what about those pickies you was one about.

[Dave Rice]

Didn’t get a chance on Friday.

Back on site Wednesday to fit a camera to the gate and may be replace the pet cam in the stable with something a bit better. They keep a couple of donkeys and sheep, have had goats and all sorts of things. The kids like to keep an eye on them.

I’ll take a little video of the zooming in to the centre of Bristol if I can. On Google Earth the co-ordinates are longitude -2.34939608888798 latitude 51.52872574148584 to longitude-2.599643157968293 latitude 51.45800850751039

[Richard]

Thank you Dave and Ed, a very interesting primer. I may not take it further but I do wonder about using it to put a wireless access point in the roof to see if it can cover all the top floor. Currently the walls are a very limiting factor. I have more dark spots than ‘bright’ one in the radio for WiFi sense.

Cameras are rather less of a priority for me for the moment, my hands (when they work) and mind (if that ever works again) are full of other issues. I think it is nothing and not like the skin cancer my wife had removed 25 years ago, but I saw the dermatologist today – having been left waiting – for about a year for a ‘three month follow up appointment’.

I should now be called for ‘a minor procedure’ in a couple of weeks.

Daughter had a good pre-birthing appointment this morning – after a two hour silent wait for a her at her house to have a ‘5 minute appointment’. Not a good use of two hours of increasing concern while granddaughter sitting, I can tell you.

Richard

[Dave Rice]

Ubiquiti kit is one of those “other” PoE devices. Mostly they need their own PoE injectors (supplied) or switches (for large business installations) as they use a different voltage (24v), but the 8 port+ switches can power 802.3af 48v kit as well.

Another piece of PoE WiFi kit I use (two of in fact) is the £26 TP-LINK TL-WA801ND 300 Mbps N WAP. I use them as client devices to link the office LAN and Sky box to the main Ubiquiti WiFi network. They can also be used as a WAP or Repeater. The (non 802.3af) injector is supplied and has allowed me to mount them in a more appropriate location than the wall wart would allow. They also do the TL-WA901ND 450 Mbps N version with PoE (same link) but unfortunately the AC1200 version is Gigabit and isn’t.

For my test kit I’ve used a 16v PoE power bank in the field for years, but you can now easily get 24v and 48v versions but they’re not cheap. Ubiquiti have now brought out an injector for installers that can be powered by a standard 5v micro USB port (so I use a 26,000mAh 2A power bank). It’s also a small wireless router in it’s own right so you can provision the kit on the end of it via a wireless laptop or even phone / tablet.

[wasbit]

Thanks Dave. Appreciate you taking the time & trouble to explain.

--
Regards
wasbit

Rig 1: Optiplex 3050 SFF
Rig 2: Asus ROG G20CB (rebuilt wreck)
Rig 3: HP Elitebook 8440P

Dear Starfleet, hate you, hate the Federation, taking Voyager. - Janeway

[Dave Rice]

Definitely still in the mines bigger than yours category, this is where I was today. There was a Ferrari in the garage but the contents of the fish pond are actually worth a lot more. These are show quality Koi and they ain’t small and this is just a few of them!

This is a quarter of the “fish pond” I’m standing on the island in the middle.

Behind you can see an AstroTurf 5 a side football pitch because his (grown up) sons play in the local team. The building behind is his equivalent of your garden shed workshop (it’s 15m x 3m). The 20m x 20m pond is in the centre of the 80m x 100m plot and when finished will be fully enclosed with bifold type doors and the island will be fully kitted out with a 4K TV and Sky Q for some (semi) outdoor living. We’ve got to work out how to do it from the Sky dish on another building 30m away. Luckily there’s underground trunking everywhere as he hates wires showing, so it’ll be a looooong cable.

We were there to do a camera survey to protect the front perimeter (the other directions are protected by natural features) that faces the road. We have the job already as this is the owner of the care home job we recently won and he knows we can do wireless, which is what will be needed on this site (Edit – but the cameras won’t be wireless, that wouldn’t help anyway). Ask ADT to do that…

We have to factor in that the existing house will be flattened in a years time so can’t be used as a central point and that the perimeter will still need protecting. When the house is rebuilt we have to fully network it up wired and wireless and make the NVR accessible (and interactable) on the lounge TV from an armchair for a technophobe (who hates wires). Luckily we’ve already tested Cat 5 HDMI extenders that support the IR “magic eye” and they work a treat.

To be fair to the bloke he and his sons do all the building work themselves and he is managing / building the care home extension at the same time. Most Project Managers I know wouldn’t take both on never mind being the brickie too. But it shows how much money you can make in property development and most especially owning a very upmarket care home.

But try the “big house mark up” on the quotes at your peril  :negative:

[Tippon]

It’s not very often that a house makes me jealous, but wow! I want that lake*!  :yahoo:

 

*Can’t really call it a pond anymore  B-)

[Author]

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