London Roads.

[Richard]

JayCeeDee wrote:

When you have “Amateur Hour” ISIS/ISIL/Daesh, instant amateur radicals become their public face and willing resource, and they can be anybody. Literally. Having lived through the IRA bombing campaign in London, giving blood for the victims of the Old Bailey attack, shutting the business down for hours on end with bomb scares and explosions in Kensington, Steve’s right. Get on with life, feel sorrow for the victims, but move on. If we let them disrupt our lives, they are half way to their goal because we let them. If any of this post seems at all blasé, it isn’t meant to be.

I do not think your post was in anyway blasé. I hope you did not think I was in any way disagreeing with Steve.

I was also in London for part of that time.Though never involved in anyway in any aspects of an aftermath.

I applaud your efforts and should only offer you thanks for doing what you could at the time

The best monument to the fallen is to continue with life, at the rest of repeating myself it is not to play loop tapes that heighten fear.

[Ed P]

You do not have to scare the public by over-reacting – just take away the soft high profile, high publicity targets in tourist areas. Bollards need not be obvious, they could and should look like pretty plant containers.

As JCD points out, vehicle terrorism needs little or no organisation and is almost impossible to anticipate. We need to quickly implement a few simple measures to reduce  this threat.

When I had a small role in anti-terrorist planning our main objective was to persuade any attacker not to hit our important areas, and try to persuade them to look for apparently softer targets elsewhere (preferably ones that were actually well defended, low value or belonged to our competitors).

[JayCeeDee]

Ed P wrote:

When I had a small role in anti-terrorist planning our main objective was to persuade any attacker not to hit our important areas, and try to persuade them to look for apparently softer targets elsewhere (preferably ones that were actually well defended, low value or belonged to our competitors).

That sounds very similar, in style and substance and intent, to what I was told regarding home security, by a Home Beat Officer. The most important aspect is the F*ck-it Factor. If they look at your property and think, “F*ck it, there’s an easier target somewhere else.” and leave, you’ve accomplished your goal.

[Richard]

JayCeeDee wrote:

Ed P wrote:

When I had a small role in anti-terrorist planning our main objective was to persuade any attacker not to hit our important areas, and try to persuade them to look for apparently softer targets elsewhere (preferably ones that were actually well defended, low value or belonged to our competitors).

That sounds very similar, in style and substance and intent, to what I was told regarding home security, by a Home Beat Officer. The most important aspect is the F*ck-it Factor. If they look at your property and think, “F*ck it, there’s an easier target somewhere else.” and leave, you’ve accomplished your goal.

—–

I absolutely agree, ‘pass along nothing doing here’.

[Les.]

Just a few random comments. As I expected, it was a born in UK islamist, BUT I did not hear any cries of “Aluha al akba” or whatever it is that is normally shouted. Unusual. When I heard the ISIS claim, I noted no name given, obviously not DIRECTED. Is that why the police held up his name for such a long time?

Are they really trying to destroy our way of life? A simpler explanation is that if they can only get one person (he did better than that) he knows what his martyrs REWARD will be. If you BELIEVE such rubbish, you are surely on to a good deal.

I don’t understand it, but if my belief was so stupidly wrong, then maybe I would understand it. Religion!

Changing topic, there was an Irish funeral today. Was he good or bad? Old Norman has a very good explanation, he knew he was for the chop very soon, so started talking peace, a win-win snatched from a defeat. It was commonly known (or claimed) that by the time peace was discussed, they were heavily infiltrated, and all likely to be killed or locked up. And they have moved far nearer to a win! Now if  the “Loyalists” could see that the writing is on the wall now, and give a little, there may be a bit less chaos over there. AF made a right cock up of the free heat payments for all, and should just admit it and step aside. Religion!

Les.

Les.

 

[blacklion1725]

Ireland is not a good comparison to draw. Most Unionists are nominally protestant and most Republicans are nominally Catholic. Their primary squabble though is about land and sovereignty not religion. You can actually make a logical argument both ways…..whatever your opinion.

Islamic terrorism doesn’t have a territorial goal (like United Ireland or NI stays in the UK). It is about trying toe reinforce a 7th century religion – using the weak, vulnerable and those with ow self esteem as easy converts to canon fodder – the aim is to impose a backward, intolerant, hateful, racist, sexist, anti-homosexual doctrine on everyone.

When I mentioned difficult choices, I was referring to the terrorist watch-list – and the fat that it is probably time for a lot less monitoring and a lot more detention and deportation.

[Ed P]

I’m sorry that the UK powers that be have once again perpetuated the ‘Islamic’ smear. It is akin to a terrorist act by a Ku Klux Klan member being called  ‘Christian terrorism’.

Salafist Wahabbis have no claim to the great body of Islam, and it is only our Government’s fear of offending some of  the Arab States that stops us naming names as done by nearly every other country in Europe for example Germany. Instead we smear and offend the whole of Islam.

[Malcolm]

Anarchists have always hidden behind some movement or other, Luddites, Chartists, Socialists, Communists, Religions of all flavours.

[Dave Rice]

I was working part time in London at the time (south side of Blackfriars bridge) and used to walk past there on my way to Liverpool Street Station (I was staying with a mate in Essex). I remember the cascades of fanfold printer paper coming out of one of the office blocks with it’s walls blown out.

I don’t remember being at all concerned even though I had an 18 month old (#1 son) and wife at home in Bristol. I don’t recall the Mrs being worried either. The chances of being in the wrong place at the wrong time are tiny. I don’t recall anyone at work changing their daily routine whatsoever.

[Richard]

Ed P wrote:

I’m sorry that the UK powers that be have once again perpetuated the ‘Islamic’ smear. It is akin to a terrorist act by a Ku Klux Klan member being called ‘Christian terrorism’. Salafist Wahabbis have no claim to the great body of Islam, and it is only our Government’s fear of offending some of the Arab States that stops us naming names as done by nearly every other country in Europe for example Germany. Instead we smear and offend the whole of Islam.

No, this is where we really diverge. The official statements I read/heard were far more measured saying that initially it was a suspected terrorist attack and then that it was a radicalised (fill the blank) any blank filler will do. It is now clear he was no believer in anything except violence, he was a tool, a stupid dumb tool of hate merchants and could have been co-opted by any bunch of thugs at any point in his life, perhaps even the Cray brothers had they still been in business. Though he was possibly too unstable for them.

Blacklion1725 had it right, the feeble minded and life failures are being used by puppet masters the world over as they are too afraid of being picked off to go out and do their dirty work. They try to achieve a double effect, (1) clear out the feeble minded who they really despise (rather like any dictator squad always pick on the mentally weak) and sit back and (2) enjoy the show their rambling crap has created. He was no different to Timothy Mcveigh or any other sad criminal nut case.

In this case ,Adrian Elms, was a career criminal with a history of violent knife crime. In short a loose canon just waiting for someone to make the bullets for him to fire. His most recent crime was no different to any of his previous crimes; he simply hated people.

I am inclined to feel sympathy for those who say do not ‘watch’ such trash, neutralise them. The methods to be applied to neutralise them is the only point open for discussion. Was he a sociopath? I am not qualified to diagnose, he was and clearly had a problem for years..

[Ed P]

I agree that Therasa May produced a far more measured response under commons questioning. link. However the initial statements that were put out stated ‘We are treating this as a case of Islamic terorism’. In fact you still get the BBC (and others) referiing to ‘so-called Islamic State’. I believe that they should entirely drop the term and call them what they are – perverted Salafists.

From the reporting I have seen he was in fact a Muslim convert and probably radicalised  in prison.

I have a very good urbane Sunni friend who blames Margaret Thatcher and TBLiarr for making ‘deals with the Devil’ by allowing the more radical elements in the Middle East to fund and staff Mosques. He said that many London mosques have very radical preachers, and the funding and appointment of Clerics is still overseen by the Middle East..

As you have spent time in the Middle East I do not need to repeat the extreme neo-Nazi views that the Salafist right-wing of the Wahhabi espouse, and how evil these views can be, or the way they use this to pin all the woes of the world on the ‘non-humans’,

[Richard]

I shied away from any Nazi reference as it both offends some due to frequent over use and is somewhat over narrow, but they were included within my reference to the ragbag of past dictators.

I tend to regard all news outlets with some jaundice, the BBC like all of them tends to, shall we say ‘tailor their headlines’. Yes the latest claimed some allegiances, but I suspect he was available to the first bidder to accept him.

Few will mourn his passing though some in his family may mourn his behaviour for how it reflects on them.

[blacklion1725]

To be fair to the BBC the “so called” with “Islamic State” is used I think to avoid acknowledging it as a legitimate State or Organisation. That is the name of the group though and I think they are right to use it – just as they called the IRA by name rather than anything else.

I completely agree about the alignment with Nazi principles, Hitler had no trouble raising Islamic SS divisions in the Balkans on his anti-semitic mandate. There also used to be an Islamic propaganda stall outside Upton Park station on non-match days. Swastikas and other Nazi references were plentiful. Very clearly a specific sect of the wider religion but an issue that the media likes to ignore (Nazis must be bad white people in right wing groups).

[Bob Williams]

Well I am back from the Beckenham funeral and back to the Topic. The Garmin satnav that has taken me all over the UK and a couple of times to Europe, was eventually switched off after trying to take me into Central London to get to what was once Kent. When it mentioned Lewisham I knew it was wrong, so I gave up on it and found my own way to the M25 and A21. To direct me into Central London on the day after the atrocity, was ridiculous. We had 3 nights there, including the finest, most wonderful Wake for my wife’s lovely 99 year old aunt. I looked around the packed church and the reception afterwards: there were people of so many colours, creeds, class, ages and faiths, some openly weeping at the loss of a friend. There were readings by SWMBO’s cousin, Aunt’s daughter, grandchildren and children: there was a “Photo Wall” of Aunt’s family and friends across two centuries, from Wales to across the world. I looked at all these different groups of people, all talking, drinking and eating together. I found myself renewing acqaintance with so many different people, and I looked at the 50″ TV displaying a Slide show of the lady whose life we were celebrating.

And I thought, this is why you fanatical barstewards will never win. When a tiny 99 year old Welsh lady can bring all these people together to mourn her passing and celebrate her life, you have no chance. And I was heartened by it all, no matter how sentimental that sounds.

Coming home, I used Mark One Biological Satnav above my eyebrows and worked my own way, via the A20 to the Dartford Crossing and the M25 North. I avoided the M11 and instead opted for the A1 and A1(M), Peterborough bypass, A47 and avoided Boston by using the country lanes I used to know years ago.(They’re still there, just waiting for me to find them again). Then back onto the A16, across to the A153 through Horncastle, over the Wolds to Louth and home. A longer way around on the map, but it took over an hour less than going down. Unless I am going somewhere I have never been before, in future I will use my brain and a good map. The Satnav is history, it’s made me lazy and dependent upon a piece of Tech to do my thinking. :good:

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[blacklion1725]

….apparently a wise old Hammer told you to use the A20…….. ?

[Author]

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