Forumite Members › General Topics › Politics › UK › Is Labour now "#&cked" as was overheard yesterday during the TIG Launch?
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Ed P.
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February 20, 2019 at 5:48 pm #30984
Just to calm myself down re all the hypocrisy I have reminded myself of the typical flight path of all break away new parties (?) in the HoC. It goes like this.
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February 20, 2019 at 6:21 pm #30989Hypocrisy? From politicians? Surely not!
I think they take the Hypocratic Oath at induction.
February 20, 2019 at 11:15 pm #30991@VFM I see Derek Hatton lasted 2 days.
Steven Woolfe (UKIP MEP bare knuckle fighter) has said he’d like to stand as a Conservative in Anna Soubry’s constituency. In their story, the Express states that Broxtowe is “heavily pro-Brexit” at 55% – 45%.
Kate Hoey 78%, Graham Brady – 61% Remain, Graham Lilley 61% Remain, Theresa Villiers 59% Remain, Dominic Raab 59%, John Redwood 57%
Hypocrisy? Alive and well everywhere especially in the daily papers.
February 20, 2019 at 11:55 pm #30995I recently had cause to look up a few things about the current Labour Party Chairman, Ian Lavery, MP for Wansbeck since 2010 and former NUM Leader who took over from Scargill. A true Leftie on the face of it and one of the key supporters of Corbyn in his two leadership elections.
I reckon he took that Hypocratic Oath several times just to be sure. Lavery has been critical of New Labour figures, particularly those who have enjoyed lucrative work in the private sector. Instead he appears to grab everything possible directly from either Trade Union’s purses or the public purse by as many dubious means as is possible.
Take a look at the whole ‘Controversies’ section two thirds down the page here. It is quite some read. All in all a perfect person to be the Chairman of any Political Party.
Oh, I forgot. He clearly understands what is and isn’t racist also. Here’s a picture of him posing with his son.
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February 21, 2019 at 9:18 am #31007I cannot stand that man. They’re all grabbing money from wherever they can, even parties within parties like the ERG and Momentum.
I hope TIG does shake things up a bit, but like you I think it will fizzle out. A lot depends on the next 2 weeks or so as far as MPs jumping is concerned and after March 29th for the public. Interesting times indeed.
February 21, 2019 at 10:03 am #31008FPTP pretty much guarantees that the Lab-Con cartel is invulnerable. As I see it the best that any start-up can do is cause one side of the other of the two party cartel to alter course a little for fear of the other binary choice getting voted in due to lost votes. Remember UKIP; 4M votes but not one seat.
The biggest problem for TIG as I see it is that it is trying to built top down. No grass roots. Where will such come from if it all? I just can’t see an army of those who have previously never been activists appearing out of nowhere. And while the Lab and Tory TIG MPs may be happy to work together I just can’t see local past Tory and local past Lab activists burying the previously well blooded hatchet and working together. I truly believe that the chances of TIG succeeding are hardly any better than the chances of finding rocking horse droppings on the far side of the moon and the latter would be far more interesting.
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February 21, 2019 at 11:05 am #31009The biggest problem for TIG as I see it is that it is trying to built top down. No grass roots. Where will such come from if it all? I just can’t see an army of those who have previously never been activists appearing out of nowhere.
I don’t think it really needs to become a new political party at all – it just needs to become a re-defining force for Labour and Conservatives, bringing them both back to the centre and away from the extremes. Once this is properly and permanently achieved, the members can go back to their previous parties knowing they have achieved their purpose.
UKIP wanted us out of Europe and they achieved this because of Cameron’s arrogance with the referendum offer, the UK populations decision and the impending exit date. They are now irrelevant to the UK’s future having achieved their goal and are not dead and buried, but are a party without purpose any more.
TIG’s destiny may well lead them down the same path, but if it ends up with two parties working on behalf of the country instead of themselves, all the better.
February 21, 2019 at 11:16 am #31010My oh my things are hotting up. Almost 80,000 signatures already as I write on a petition effectively demanding that the TIG set resign and fight by-elections. While at the same time, in an attempt to not be out done by her Labour colleagues who declare Labour to now be a racist party, Soubry has pretty much leveled the same accusation against May saying that because of Windrush, etc., she thinks May has a problem with immigration. Come to think of it Soubry does often look like a hissing cat and now the claws are certainly out. Truly interesting times.
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February 21, 2019 at 11:27 am #31012I agree, JCD, that UKIP are dead. But whether there exists an opening for the new Brexit Party depends on the events of the coming month or so. If we do not leave on 29 March or there is a fudge that can clearly be sold to the 17.4M who voted Leave as a betrayal of such then that Brexit Party has a far more substantial platform than TIG and perhaps even more substantial than UKIP ever had; because the Ref energised so very many who previously had no interest in politics. Were I May and if her deal cannot pass Parliament then if I were her I’d call a snap GE pdq while Labour are in disarray and before TIG or the Brexit Party can fully mobilise.
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February 21, 2019 at 11:45 am #31013I don’t know whether she has the mettle to try that after her previous run dropped her deeper in the proverbial than before!!
However, as the saying goes “Desperate times call for desperate measures”!!
February 21, 2019 at 11:46 am #31014After much fierce competition and several outstanding nominations we can now announce that the 2019 Hypocrisy Oscar is awarded to……….(pause while the gold envelope is opened)………..Heidi Allen. Let’s look at her truly stunning performance.
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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.
February 21, 2019 at 11:57 am #31015If you talk betrayal, I think the Conservative Party have completely betrayed their ‘Broad Church’ principles and shifted to the Fascist right. I used to vote Conservative but never again.
Once upon a time I also voted for New Labour as I thought that they represented the bulk of opinions – unfortunately venal TBLiar betrayed that trust and sold out to cretinous Bush Juvenile who was conducting his own personal vendetta. (The Iraqis stupidly tried to assassinate his father).
Whether a strong Centrist party can exist is moot – it may have done earlier except Nick Clegg betrayed his election promise to the students.
Betrayal always loses votes.
February 21, 2019 at 1:37 pm #31018How fascinating, Ed. As regards intent to never again vote Tory I hear the identical sentiment from many if Brexit is fudged or not delivered on time. Yet, and here is the strange reality, the Cons remain well ahead in the latest polls, even those that have included TIG. It seems TIG are damaging Labour far more than the Tories. Personally though I don’t think current polls mean a thing. However, those after 29 March are likely to mean everything. Its probably full blown limbo-land until then.
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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.
February 21, 2019 at 2:01 pm #31019Unfortunately I’m not in a marginal seat, and so like far too many other voters I have no democratic representation.
February 21, 2019 at 2:21 pm #31021I suspect we have a point of total agreement between us there. Even though I live in BoJo’s seat and have nothing too much to complain of there re a pro-Brexit MP, I have long been a supporter of PR. Why the hell the PR ref a few years back went the way it did I don’t understand. But I’d bet all I have if there were such a PR ref today then there would be a massive majority in favour.
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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.
February 21, 2019 at 4:15 pm #31023I think irrespective of Brexit/Conservative views I think I would still want PR in your constituency. BoJo has never represented anyone except BoJo !
February 21, 2019 at 5:29 pm #31026The one thing about BoJo that is a plus is that he’s good at delegation. Guess he has to be when he’s not much good at anything himself. Certainly as Mayor of London and despite his cranky ideas like the Garden Bridge he was still many times better than Khan. In my experience those who can’t delegate or don’t trust those they delegate to, wanting instead to have their own hands in every pie, usually mess things up more than anyone.
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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.
February 21, 2019 at 10:04 pm #31031Personally, I predict both Labour and Tory being somewhat decimated in the next 6 weeks. Come March 29th, there are MPs in both parties will be ready to jump ship.
Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.
February 21, 2019 at 10:10 pm #31032Incidentally, anyone noticed ALL of the media can’t do basic math. They all claim that the Tories have lost 3 off their majority. No, they lose 6. For every Tory that goes, that’s one less for the Tories, and one more for the the rest.
If two more go, the Tories lose their majority, even with the DUP bribe.
And May’s running down the clock, being the blackmail that it is, why have the police not launched an investigation into government bribery and blackmail?
And I voted Leave – woe is me.
Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.
February 22, 2019 at 7:03 am #31033If anything is now “#&cked, it is the stupid May/Moggite EU negotiating strategy with at least 30 (some reports saying 100) Conservative MPs stating that they will vote for an extension to Article 50. I’m not actually certain they can do that without EU agreement but they can easily withdraw Article 50 i.e. No Brexit!
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