Is cashless being forced on us?

[PlaneMan]

Tin foil hat time.

I’m increasingly seeing ‘out of order’ cash machines and lanes/self service tills in supermarkets that are card only and no cashback being offered. Is this just me being paranoid (I am) or has anyone else noticed it?

I’m sure that the banks and big business would love to go cashless, less physical security needed = less staff = less expenditure = bigger profits.

I love Google Pay as I hardly ever take my debit card out with me and if I spot a bargain I can usually pay with my phone and not have to drain my cash reserves, but it also bothers me that someone could pull the plug on my cashless spending at will, whether it’s my card and or phone.

Think I’ll start checking gold prices………….?

[Richard]

I have not noticed the problem you have noticed but that might be because my usage patterns are different. I sometimes use the self service till and have noticed that sometimes one or two might be card only or just as likely cash only as the reader has gone AWOL. Usually I use the attended tills and I often see people take cash back but if they are paying with a credit card that can be an expensive option. If I want cash I use the machine for that. Several times recently the machine networks have gone into holiday mode so cash was the only option, Visa wiped out everything, Mastercard wiped out a lot and BP could only take cash – though their cash points were still delivering cash for punters to try to use to pay for petrol. As for TSB, their fiasco was a warning not to rely on any single system, methods or untested software. The term, single point of failure haunts me over the electronic payment methods as there appears to be no redundancy or store and forward aspect to their unstable offerings.

[Richard]

Addendum to the above, Lloyds and that includes the others in the group are having a few issues tonight with so called faster pay systems. I understand that is is unsure whether to be a slower pay system or a do not pay system, but it is not well. I do not think this is affecting normal card systems – yet or at all.

[keith with the teef]

Agreed cash-less is being suruptisiouly forced on us.

I do cash less, but I dont do serviceless. So when I make a payment a operative tells me how much to pay.

If told different then the store keeps its products.

There is no way on this earth that I’m gonna walk around a store for x time to be told self scan.

[Boris]

We always make a point of using attended tills in local supermarkets, and avoid self-service.

We only have a Co-op (all attended) and a Tesco (60% attended/40% self-serve).

I prefer to keep our locals in employment – there are hardly any jobs around here as it is.

Never trust an atom - they make up everything !

[Bob Williams]

I think this issue should be looked at from the environment in which the user lives: urban, extra-urban (large cities) or rural.

I live 2 miles from Louth, Lincolnshire, a market town and rapidly becoming a tourist attraction, with 3 weekly markets in existence for centuries. There is a mix of shops including the market stalls, from small specialist shops, cheaper local clothing shops, very expensive clothing shops and outlets such as Argos, Heron, EWM and Peacocks. Some of the smaller shops do not take card or cheque payments and say so in their windows. The market stalls of course take only cash, but they have a wide selection of specialist food stalls: fresh seafood (Grimsby just 22 miles away) Bakery, Mediterranean, Asian, cheeses and dairy, local farm meat and veg, many different restaurants and cafes. Accompanied by the usual plant, music, book and clothing stalls and the guy who has been here forever selling any battery you can think of, along with a range of quartz watches from £1.

Louth and Horncastle are epicentres for most of the East Lindsey villages and market days are usually a cue for loads of villagers to arrive by the busload, accompanied by tourists. Wednesday is the largest market and can be hell on a sunny day if more than 2 or 3 coach trips arrive. All locals understand that cash is king on the market and the smaller shops, who do brisk business. Unfortunately, tourists who have not visited before neglect to read the ‘Cash Only’ signs and complain if they cannot use their plastic. These are the same people who are bamboozled by our narrow Georgian streets and prehistoric one way system, going round in circles trying to find parking spaces and ignoring the “P” signs. They also take up pavement space by standing 4 abreast and yakking to each other. On the whole, I would prefer to see them spend as much as possible and then be escorted down to the fast-running River Lud, wearing a large boulder around their necks…?

But seriously, ? back to the cashless debate: I love my cashless card, using it gives me cashback from my bank, and if I visit an urban environment, I know I will need no cash. In Grimsby, Skegness and Lincoln, it’s all I usually need. But in Louth there are places which sell fresh food, amongst other items and I know that I may have to pay cash, so I am forearmed by a visit to the ATM on the outskirts, before continuing into town. No ATM in Louth has been closed to my recollection, and several new ones actually installed. In our village we have only a mobile P.O. twice weekly and can draw cash there, from any bank account.

So it’s horses for courses. Cashless payments are fine, but in places like Louth, cash is still necessary.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The Duke]

I grabbed my self a Monzo card to take away with me. It’s going to be my daily driver from no on in. It’s dragged banking into the 21c.

https://monzo.com

If anyone is interested I have a single pass so you can avoid the line. Drop me a pm if interested.

[Dave Rice]

It’s not just cashless, it’s paperless too.

On the recent trip to Austria even my weekly Vienna travel pass was on my phone as well as all the airport boarding passes. All the maps and guides I used were app based. No-one looked at my passport either, it was machine read at both ends.

Cash wise I find Europe is behind us in that respect, especially contactless. But 99% of public toilets have an attendant who you give 50 cents to. Very rarely do you see Paddington station style loos where you have to put money into a turnstile.

[Drezha]

The Duke wrote:

I grabbed my self a Monzo card to take away with me. It’s going to be my daily driver from no on in. It’s dragged banking into the 21c. https://monzo.com If anyone is interested I have a single pass so you can avoid the line. Drop me a pm if interested.

Had one for a while, but I use it’scompetitor, Starling, more often.
Only because it offers me a meagre 0.5% interest, over the Monzo offer of 0%.

I still get paid in to my Lloyds but I pay myself an allowance into the Starling each week as fun money.

"Everything looks interesting until you do it. Then you find it’s just another job" - Terry Pratchett

[The Duke]

That’s what I do with monzo. Apparently the money you put in pots gets some interest, and the money in your daily spend account doesnt

Ive not looked into it, but I can’t see myself using it as a saving/storage for my money.

 

Dave, Europe is more laid back, on peeing in public. I see loads of men, stopped by the side of the roads. I’ve seen a couple of women hiding behind their cars too.

They seem to have a bit more sense than our lot. However the French road networks are by far the best serviced roads I’ve seen. Both the tolls and the trunk roads. About every 10 miles their is a stop with just toilets and benches, and every other one, has a shop and fuel station.

Stopped at a few today, and I’ve noticed since last year, they all (or a lot) have outdoor urinals. Very strange.

[blacklion1725]

I listened to an interestin interview on the radio a few months back. It was a bloke being asked about a cashless society, and the probable impact on crime. On the one hand, no cash means no invisible transactions (in theory at least) – so you wonder how junkies an the like would pay for a fix, or how blokes would pay a prossie, but on the other hand he was saying crime always finds a way, and he predicted online-crime would go off the scale, and in “personal crime” ways would be found to get round the lack of a physical currency.

The other side (apart from crime) is more big brother knowing where you were and what you spent and what on. We are heading that way.

I agree we should be more practical about the need for a widdle when driving – as long as you are as discreet as possible – should be OK at roadside within reason. I think this more and more as the years click by for some reason.

[Richard]

An interesting range of views which suggests to me that rather than being forced on unwilling punters, in many ways some (me?) are being dragged along by those such as Steve and Dave who are far more keen. I have used cards for most shopping for sometime. In the UK I used to believe that up to £10 or so was a cash amount and then it depended on what cash I had on hand. One card does not do contactless at all, five others will do contactless but so far I have only used it that way for hospital food (M&S snack shop) and parking using ‘credit cards’ not debit cards, it keeps cash available for other uses. In all cases, cash or credit card  I take the paper receipt, for our records since they are a shared resource between my wife and self. It also stems from a long held desire to have clear proof of ownership. In the past that was an essential for insurance and travel expense purposes and for settling monthly accounts in both the Middle and Far East, so the habit has stuck after nearly 45 years. Cash has one undeniable value, it does not need a working network to allow its use, something the banks cannot ensure exists and that the financial regulator believes will become less assured as all banks start to replace and modify their ageing systems as TSB recently faced doing – arguably using a less than stellar method.

[PlaneMan]

The only place that I go to that is cash only is the Legion. The vast majority of the regulars are 60+ and use cash almost exclusively. They contemplated getting a card machine but they had one for a month on a trial and it was used twice. That might change in the near future as they are getting a lot more private parties and have been asked a lot if they take cards.

Regarding the self service tills, I use staffed tills whenever possible but my priority is to get in and out as quick as possible so use what’s going to be quickest.

[blacklion1725]

PM unless an emergency I always wait for a staffed till – hate the self-checkouts but they hate me even more and I always end up needing help. Quite often do a crack-of-dawn shop at my local big Tescos and the bloke who monitors the self-checkouts (no tills open then) sees me coming (probably groans) and then puts the checkout in some special mode that just lets me scan and bag everything with no errors. Hate, hate, hate self-checkouts…..and as an aside it is also another tier of jobs disappeared.

[Dave Rice]

Nolan, an ex-colleague is the office manager for RBL Whitchurch & Pensford. They got a card reader in for the same reason, renting out of the function room. However the WiFi was installed from pressure by the members!

[PlaneMan]

The wifi was done about 3 years back, after I showed them how it would make running the club much easier by doing most of it online. Computer equipment was originally a P200 which I overclocked to 233  mhz using the jumpers on the motherboard (before they had broadband) which came from the Western Mail and Echo. Since it’s been kit donated by members that have upgraded.

Now most of the members have smart phones, even if they’re not really sure why! ?

[Richard]

blacklion1725 wrote:

PM unless an emergency I always wait for a staffed till – hate the self-checkouts but they hate me even more and I always end up needing help. Quite often do a crack-of-dawn shop at my local big Tescos and the bloke who monitors the self-checkouts (no tills open then) sees me coming (probably groans) and then puts the checkout in some special mode that just lets me scan and bag everything with no errors. Hate, hate, hate self-checkouts…..and as an aside it is also another tier of jobs disappeared.

I only ever use the self abuse sorry self service when there is someone who looks as though they know their way around the ‘facility’ supervising what is going on. I have a sort of way with new things like that, they tend to fall over and do all sorts of things that no one likes them to do. I only ever use them if I am in a hurry, I have only a few items and other options look a bit on the slow side. Otherwise I enjoy the moment to chat with the staff, well those who can understand me anyway, at a normal till. Our local Tesco has two basket tills half a dozen self service and up to a couple of dozen normal tills that can be staffed, though only at really busy times are they all in use. A normal busy time might see a dozen in use. So I do not feel any pressure to downgrade my experience. However, I do understand the pressure to reduce costs by shifting work practices. At my age and dexterity I only want so many changes in lifestyle thank you. Having to find, buy and fit a new kitchen door hinge for the outside door was my challenge of the day. The door is partially double glazed and wider than standard to it is heavy, thank heavens for wedges and hammers to do the lifting. I had a time limit as my wife had a hospital appointment set for the afternoon. Still both problems are now fixed.

[Tippon]

I’d lean more towards cashless if I could, and would love to be able to get motorbike gloves with contactless. Imagine just riding up to the pump, filling up, then touching your hand to something and riding off. No more carrying a wallet, no more having to take gloves off and put them back on, especially if they’re wet or you’re sweaty. No more fiddling with zips that you can’t see and hoping that you’re done it up properly so you don’t lose your wallet half way through Wales.

No more carrying pockets full of shrapnel after a tea stop 😀

[Richard]

Tippon, that is absolutely fine…until you end up cold wet and possibly hungry with an almost empty fuel tank for you and the bike and find that the network has taken a holiday and your token is less useful than a yack cow pat. Having had to bail out others with my personal credit card when their corporate cards suffered that fate in Japan, I have always been super wary of the all your eggs in one basket syndrome. That is why I never go out without multiple cards and cash, including the road side assistance card as well.

[The Duke]

I’ve used pay at pump for years now. Never once have I seen the system down. Even if it was the card machines too would be effected, so The station would have to let me return to pay.

On two occasion in the distant passed, I’ve filled up, to find my Doris had used my card and not put it back. It’s why I have a ‘fuel’ credit card thst lived in the car now. But on each occasion, they are fine, they take your reg and will report you after 24 or 48 hours.

[Author]

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