Heart Attack ?

[Ed P]

Just testing – two previous post attempts disappeared!

[Ed P]

It seems if a link is added to the post it disappears!

[isdarit]

Crikey not the best start but it could of been worse. Hope it all gets sorted out soon. My mate had a quadruple bypass the experience and technology these days make it not such a daunting operation.  They had him up and about in no time. Good luck

[Ed P]

I tried to post some info with links on magnesium supplementation but the links caused WordPress to throw a wobbly, so please accept the following without accreditation.

Only bioavailable magnesium is of any use. NCBI carried out tests on young healthy males (my guess is that old pharts on ppis will be much worse).  Bottom line Neomag was effective, and magnesium citrate on a full stomach was good. Magnesium oxide (a common supplement) is useless to all but rats. While Neomag is obviously preferred, magnesium citrate is half the price and may be worth considering

[The VFM Addict]

Neomag is Magnesium Glycerophosphate.     Magnesium Gylcerophosphate is what Harefield use when supplementation is needed and is what my other half has been on since 2014.    There were once several presentations of M.Glycero. available and still are; but the only one now left on the Drug Tariff (i.e. what GP’s can prescribe and repeat after hospital initiation) is the chewable Neomag.   Its about £45 OTC for 50 and most doses are three a day so about £90 a month if you are not getting a script.

Magnesium Citrate in all forms is almost as bioavailable as M.Glycero. but is a mild to moderate laxative so may not suit some patients.     Just had a fierce battle with the local CCG that wanted our GP to move her a cheaper citrate.    Only won it because she also suffers IBS meaning a laxative was not ideal.

The most bioavailable Magnesium is that contained in foods so focusing consumption on foods containing it is advised.

Foods which contain magnesium:
Green leafy vegetables (e.g. spinach and kale)
Fruit (figs, avocado, banana and raspberries)
Nuts and seeds
Legumes (black beans, chickpeas and kidney beans)
Vegetables (peas, broccoli, cabbage, green beans, artichokes, asparagus, brussels sprouts)
Seafood (salmon, mackerel, tuna)
Whole grains (brown rice and oats)
Raw cacao
Dark Chocolate
Tofu
Baked beans
Chlorella powder

Finally, cut out fizzy carbonated drinks.    These deplete magnesium.

 

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Dave Rice]

+1 to VFM’s comments about specialist hospitals. I was taken straight to the Bristol Heart Institute which although it’s physically part of the same complex as the general hospital (in which I’ve spent some considerable time) is separate in all other respects. The nurses know exactly what questions to ask (and how to phrase them) when assessing you.

The next morning I was having some pain in “that place” but not enough to mention it, it clearly wasn’t another heart attack. The sister spotted it, asked the right questions in a way that didn’t spook me and 2 paracetamols later it was sorted (inflamed lining from all the mucking about).

[Ed P]

I probably should have posted the title of the NCBI paper “Predicting and Testing Bioavailability of Magnesium Supplements”.

If you are interested in pharma testing it is an interesting read (fairly scientific so not a light read). Also of interest is their development of an artificial gut (SHIME) for in vitro testing purposes and comparison with the human tests. (Testing was only carried out on 10 healthy males Ten slim healthy young men volunteered to participate in this study. The subjects’ age, weight, height, and body mass index (BMI) were 24.8 ± 8.0 years, 75.7 ± 9.7 kg and 179.1 ± 5.2 cm and 23.5 ± 2.1 kg/m2, respectively. Not exactly representative of those who most need supplementation!

[The VFM Addict]

Pretty much all Pharmacokinetic studies (i.e. studies of the absorption, distribution, metabolism and excretion of a drug, vitamin or compound, etc.) are conducted in young healthy adults.    Its the only way one can get a worthwhile baseline for comparisons and which is not biased by various mixes of adverse conditions or interacting medications that might impact the kinetics.   Its only once one moves to Clinical Studies which demonstrate the efficacy of the introduction that active treatment groups are introduced.   This is especially so with Mg+ because its almost never tested for until a patient presents with problems in which Mg+ levels too low or too high might be implicated.    Too high levels are very rare and usually only result from a long standing genetic conditions which is typically picked up on in younger life.

For completeness; along with Pharmacokinetic and Clinical Studies you will also find when researching the medical literature, Pharmacodynamic studies.    These studies look at the effects of the agent on the body to determine its mode/means of action and the optimal dosing window within which optimal beneficial effect is achieved without provoking side effects.     It might surprise you to learn that there are many drugs in common use but which in respect of we still have no idea of exactly how/why they work.   This group even includes Paracetamol and Metformin which is one of the mainstays of the treatment of Type 2 Diabetes.   In short we know what effect they have but don’t know exactly how they do it.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Richard]

Graham, I can only wish you well, briefly looking back at all the well-wishers I can see I am not alone in hoping you can have a rather better 2020 than you ended 2019. Rest, take advice and trust that you get good medical attention to take you through your present troubles. I’ll keep it brief for tonight and end here, with a wish for your improving health

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Thank you all for your good wishes, they may have worked.

I finally got to see the top man for the first time today and his assessment was much better than I had hoped for.

It seems that the clot busting drugs that I have been taking at a low dose have worked quite well anyway. There is no longer any question of a bypass being required at this stage. The results of my endcardiogram showed inflamation and a small fissure in my stomach lining but no bleeding at the moment.

I am going to be discharged in the next couple of days with a higher dose of blood thinning and anti clotting drugs along with the mag supplement and another electrolyte booster. They want me back in 8 weeks to do a stress test on my heart and if I pass that then they will not even be considering stents.

The top man joked that he might like to fit a stent so that the blood flow in my arteries would look prettier in the pictures !

There is no detectable damage to  my heart muscle but my blood pressure is still only 92 over 59 but thats much better than it was 😀

[Tippon]

Ed P wrote:

Just testing – two previous post attempts disappeared!

There appear to be some new options on the site and the back end since the latest update, so these may be causing problems. I’ll check with Lee before I start pressing any of the new buttons though, just in case.

[The VFM Addict]

That’s terrific news Graham.    It sounds like the infarct was in the main due to platelet aggregation (i.e, blood clots) rather than general atherosclerotic narrowing of your coronary arteries.    That is quite rare and so you hit the jackpot, matey.   Because it means your coronary arteries are manageable predominantly pharmacologically.     Truly delighted for you.

 

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Dave Rice]

Good news indeed.

[Richard]

Graham, whatever the medical details of your condition the effect sounds about as good as you could wish for, I trust the future will bring further relief. It is good to hear such a bright outcome, now prepare to enjoy 2020, just not too much too soon!

[Bob Williams]

Great news Graham, really happy for you. We would miss your acerbic wit and (sometimes)  intelligent contributions on these pages. 🤗😆

Stay well and have a better Christmas in 2020.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Ed P]

Good news Graham, keep on truckin!

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

This morning they left me with a sachet of magnesium instead of dissolving it for me so I can tell you it is Magnaspartate (magnesium aspartate dihydrate). Any good ?

[Ed P]

Not seen any tests on that specific compound but generally speaking the organic magnesium compounds (of which this is one) are well absorbed into the body. My guess is that this compound has been chosen as it has few reports of gastric/colon side effects.

[The VFM Addict]

As far as I know Graham there are no comparison studies of Neomag (Magnesium Glycerophosphate chewable tablets) and Magnaspartate (Magnesium Aspartate Dihydrate powder).    However, there is evidence that the aspartate has better bioavailability than oxide or citrate supplements; and less laxative effect than citrate.    All in all I would consider the aspartate powder and glycerphosphate tablets equivalent re bioavailability and unless you suffer a chronic gut problem like IBS it probably makes no difference which you are one.     Both are on the NHS Drug Tariff and GP’s can issue NHS repeat scripts.

The big differences are that the powder is less expensive and that the powder is POM (a Prescription Only Medicine) as far as I recall while Neomag can be purchased OTC without a script.   So if you need the powder your GP should issue repeat scripts and he/she can’t say go buy it yourself.     There are also no local political cost reducing drives to deal with either.  The powder is on the Brent, Hillingdon and Harrow CCG’s Unified (Local) Formulary so your GP will get no flack for repeating it.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Richard]

There has been no news on this matter. Does anyone know if Graham is doing OK? I really hope so.

[Author]

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