Great book …

[JayCeeDee]

Bob Williams wrote:

It’s maybe also true that, if you have childhood problems with a parent, it can make you more determined to treat your own kids and grandkids, as you would have wished to be treated. Certainly true for me, after the abuse I suffered from my mam. I tried to show the kids what life should be like and I hope it worked: certainly we are a very close family.

It’s most definitely true, Bob. My wife is a classic example. She jokes with me that the only thing she shared with her mother was her temper. Her Mother was disabled latter years so instead of reaching for a broom to hit her with, as she had done before that, she always had a walking stick to hand. Her step-father was weak and played favourites with every other child of his six children. Wife was the eldest and basically brought the others up. She says the only reason she survived as a child was that her grandfather lived on the other side of the street and her Mum was scared of him.

She hardly ever went to school as she had duties at home to perform. She laughs when she makes mistakes and says she’s thick, but I tell her no, she’s just un-educated, there’s a difference. She held a business together for 20 odd years and you don’t do that if you’re thick.

It made her determined never to hit our son, she would say “If I’m mad enough to hit him, I’m mad enough to hurt him.” so that fell to me to discipline. That worked well for years, even though he and I butted heads over everything.

The only time the wife ever hit him, he was sixteen, taller than her, and had answered me back badly. He’d just telephoned the boy on the other side of the street ( if he had been outside our front door he could have talked to him direct!! ) and I asked him how often he did that when we weren’t here? This was in the days before phone call packages.

His answer was ” I don’t recall – I’m not so petty as to count!!” at which point the wife slapped his face and his jaw , so to speak, hit the floor in amazement.

I think if you get crap as a child, it makes you determined to do a better job with your own. He and I now get on really well, since he left for uni, we just couldn’t be under the same roof!!

We only had the one child, and that was a conscious decision as that was all we could afford at first. She is scathing at those that, as she puts it ” Knock kids out like shelling peas, without a thought as to whether they can cope with them.” When we took over the business, our lifestyle dictated the size of our family, but we were content.

Not having been educated made her determined that our son would never be in that position and his leg had to be hanging off before he could miss a day ay school!!

I don’t think that the ‘spoil the grandkids scenario’ will be relevant to us – no sign yet or likely it seems.

[Bob Williams]

Ed P wrote:

Grand-children are great. Spoil the kids rotten, give them more freedoms, give them a major sugar rush, then hand them back in time for their parents to take all the consequences. I call it revenge time for all the angst their parents caused during their own teenage years. e.g. sons pushing boundaries to their limits, and moody, tantrum-prone daughters.

Have to ask if you actually have grandchildren, Ed? Neither myself nor my wife have ever spoiled any of ours, we always factor in son and daughter’s wishes before anything else. My son pushed boundaries and my daughter was moody at times, but that is family life. I pushed boundaries, so did my missus at her family home. It’s how families work, especially with teenagers.

Family life can be affected by tensions and actions from within, as evidenced by Steve’s post. In my case, a mentally unwell and abusive mother and a father who did not know what to do about the abuse until he took me to my aunt’s home when I was very young, for almost 3 years until mam had the treatment she needed. Dad loved my mam, they had been together since 5 and 6 years old. That made him unable to stand up and recognise the abuse for a long time and I was 15 & 17 years younger than my brothers, who were married and gone by the time I was 5. Not weakness, he was a hard-working miner and dad to 3 lads. One day at 15 yo, I came home late for dinner, dad was at a green bowling match and mam just screamed at me about the dinner, over and over, I completely lost it. Used basic Anglo Saxon to tell her to ‘go away’. Did not hear dad coming through the door and hearing that: he turned me around and slapped me, for the first time ever. My reaction was to hit back. Big mistake: a right cross and a left hook knocked me spark out. I woke up with him holding my head and saying “Sorry son, are you OK? Ever talk to your mam like that again and I will really hurt you!” Later, my big bro told me “You did know the old man had been an amateur boxer, didn’t you?” No, I did not, thanks bro!

I never felt like taking revenge against my kids. They eventually matured into responsible adults, just as I did. Maybe…

” Hmmm….. You old guys are all hypocrites lol. ” Not all of us, Steve!

JayCeeDee, that’s an interesting life story. I share your wife’s feelings for people who have children they cannot keep, and dump their welfare upon the rest of us in benefits, etc.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Ed P]

Yes we have three, all sub 7.

Our mantra is ‘if you ask us to take the kids then we are ‘in loco parentis‘ and have freedom of parental action, and set our own rules.

If you couldn’t see the implicit smiley with ‘revenge time’ then I’m sorry but I obviously have a very different sense of humour! It also means that you were lucky to have never had teenagers that drove you up the wall, or caused you real worries and concerns. (all thankfully long grown out of and no longer any  issue).

With respect to spoiling, I guess it depends on your definition of ‘spoil’. We have no hesitation in giving them things that will expand their thinking or artistic abilities. e.g. Playdoh, plasticine, painting materials, reading books and Lego/Brix, making robots together etc. We also spoil by giving them some of the time and attention that working parents find hard to give, and take them out to places we think they will enjoy or that will expand their world-views. We also have very little compunction in treating them to some of the foods that their parents, and Government Food Police would hesitate to give them e.g Burgers etc.  However it does mean they tend to be a bit hyper and full of themselves when we hand them back!  Obesity is of zero concern as all of them are very sporty and athletic. All of them stretch my ability to keep up when they go running off in the Park.  One of the boys is probably in the top 2% in terms of running speed. In fact he was asked to join the local football “baby’s squad”, but his parents refused to allow it saying that he was far too young, and it demanded too much dedication and surrendering potential academic progress.  (They had also read of some of the brutal effects that take place at 16/17+ when a ‘rising club star’ is suddenly dropped.)

[Bob Williams]

Ed I have delayed responding to your last for two reasons: I was quite ill yesterday as the heat, humidity and chemo effects conspired to give me a bad day. I also needed time to consider your remarks before responding.

I have no wish to offer argument or critique of your grand-parenting skills, That is your own family and none of my business. However, your grandchildren are all much younger than mine are now, ranging from a very mature 13 yo, through 19 & 21, to 24. We actually engaged “in loco parentis” for real, over almost a year when our son’s marriage broke up in one county and we won the responsibility to care for a 2 yo grandson and a 4 yo granddaughter, from the Courts and Lincolnshire Children’s Services. They were rescued from an abusive, neglectful mother and dad was working 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week. The house was a tip and initially both were taken into care. We took them until our son could find a home and work here in Lincolnshire. Almost 20 years before this, we had witnessed our daughter’s marriage break up when her shiftless, worthless husband left her with an 8 month old baby at the old cottage here in Lincolnshire, to be with his secretary at his Nottingham business. He has since been divorced by his ex- secretary, his business failed (the 4th such business). My daughter met a much better partner: they are parents of the 13 yo. They have also converted a 2 bed old rundown cottage into a lovely modern 3 bed home by hard work. It sits 100 yards up a secluded, private road and looks out onto beautiful Lincolnshire countryside. What was valued at £125K 5 years ago, is now valued at £375K.

So you see, your family experiences are very different to mine and we have had to be sensitive in our grand-parenting. My wife and I have engaged in all our grandchildren’s education, work and activities over the years. Some of that was to repair damage done in their early years, by other grandparents besides their mother. I once pinned the other granddad to his house wall after he knocked my grandchild to the floor, then knocked him out. They thought it was OK to beat grandchildren and I disabused them of that notion.

I had no way of spotting an “incipient smiley” anywhere in your words, I imagine that is your own sarcastic humour, but I failed to spot it. You assume blindly that I did not have ” … teenagers that drove you up the wall, or caused you real worries and concerns. ” You are wrong: both my son and daughter caused us problems, quite apart from falling for the wrong partner. I have embarrassed my daughter by pulling her out of a night club at 2:30 am, to get her out and away from a sluttish, drug-taking mate. I have remonstrated with my son for being the most untidy person in the house, in front of his mates. There were many more such events until they both settled down.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The Duke]

As long as mine gone back in OK shape, I’m happy for the break.

I say ok shape, as my FiL and MiL are very outdoorsy, so a number of bones have come back broken, and countless cuts and bruses the kids like the adventure.

It’s like I think ed said earlier, the grand parents can give the time, that parents just can’t. So the kids like it, the GP like it, and us parents like the rest. I don’t mind what they feed them tbh, my point was just, as the grandkids have multiplied, his position on “lazy feeding” has had a radical change of heart lol.

[JayCeeDee]

Mum and Dad being in Wales, they didn’t get to see our son too often. One of the things that we did was one holiday a year we went as Anne and John, not Mum and Dad. We would drop him off to them and go for a week or ten days and it was a true break. It was a joy just being us.

They loved it and David loved it too. Win-win!!

[PlaneMan]

No sign of my collection ready email so I gave customer services a call. Answered in literally seconds, details and phone number taken with a promise that someone would call back before they finished at 5.30, call time was 5.10 so I was a bit sceptical about that.

5.15 I had a call from the collection branch manager (allegedly, for all I know he sweeps the floors) apologising about the delay and that for some reason the system hadn’t notified me that the books were ready for collection. Notifications received whilst talking to him. Have a code for 30% off valid for a month in store only as an apology. Might be able to pick up some Christmas presents on the cheap. ?

 

Annoying about the balls up but can’t fault the customer service team.

[Bob Williams]

Great result in the end, Nolan!

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[PlaneMan]

Got the book on Saturday. You’re right Bob, brilliant read.

Eyeing up some of his other works for the future.

[Bob Williams]

You’re welcome Nolan. Just read another by Conn Iggulden: “Darien, Empire of Salt.” More blood-soaked fantasy really, not as good as the Falcon story, but not bad and Book 1 of a 3-series. Not reading 2 and 3 yet, started another by same author: “Dunstan” which is about St. Dunstan in the 11th century, taking the reader through to 1066 and the aftermath.

Told in the first person as if by Dunstan as an old man, writing his life story. Only just started, but already hooked!

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The Duke]

I really gave Tinker Tailor, soldier spy, again! started this book many time, all I hear is great reviews, but I just can’t get into it.

So I gave The Templars by Dan Jones another go on my 12 h drive last night, and started to really enjoy it. Don’t know if it was enough to recommend it. I’ll have to wait and see how fast or oven if, I finish it.

[Bob Williams]

I recommend “Dunstan” to anyone who likes fact-based historical fiction. St. Dunstan was an actual figure during the 11th Century, involved in the creation of England by Aethelstan, the grandson and heir of King Alfred. Conn Iggulden carries out deep extensive research when writing his historical books and it is as true to real events as possible.

Life story:     http://tinyurl.com/yd396rpo

Conn Iggulden books:    http://tinyurl.com/ycsbryfd

The Mongol books are particularly good. “Wolf of The Plains” – “Lords of The Bow” – “Bones of The Hills” – “Khan: Empire of Silver”. IMO, Conn Iggulden is a better author of historical stories than Bernard Cornwell, and I have read a lot of Cornwell books.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[PlaneMan]

Just about to finish my 3rd of his, another 2 came today.

Damn you Bob, costing me a fortune!!!!!?

[Bob Williams]

Sorry Nolan! (HeHe)

I have recommended Conn Iggulden books to locals and mates, they get hooked as well. Maybe I should ask his publisher for commission?

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Author]

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