Getting an electricity refund

[Dave Rice]

The reason the above is as it is is due to the free 128GB SSD in the bundle. If you’ve seen the benchmarks in my mega build thread, an M2 SSD is absolutely the way to go. That’s why there’s such a fast one in the mega build, we saw how many temporary files were being produced and proved it in the 2 drive CAD laptop.

Where I’m getting confused on this one is CPU vs GPU. I thought D-Dan favoured GPU only, in which case why bother about a higher end CPU? and vice versa. If it’s a case of both is best I can understand, but I’m just thinking of ways to get the best solution in budget.

i.e. Spend an extra £100 on a GTX1070 and £100 less on the CPU? Or £80 more on a 2700X and a £80 less on a GTX 1050?

[Ed P]

Dave Rice wrote:

Where I’m getting confused on this one is CPU vs GPU. I thought D-Dan favoured GPU only, in which case why bother about a higher end CPU? and vice versa

Dan’s hobby is Blender, and I guess he would like to do his rendering more quickly. The CPU/GPU equation is unfortunately a difficult question to answer being based not only on scene size/complexity but also things like Shaders and a bunch of other factors. I think he would like as much of both as he can get with a slight bias towards the best affordable GPU with the biggest practical on-board ram. Ditto CPU but again difficult to balance versus GPU. I think more cores is probably equal to more flexibility given all the rendering unknowns.

[D-Dan]

To answer some of the questions. My current rig has 2 x SSD (1x 120 Gb and 1 x 256 Gb) – a DVDRW and three spinners. I also have a 500Gb and a 1TB USB drive shared as NFS drives via Pi. I could lose one of the spinners with zero cost, since it’s currently empty. Alternatively, I could get a couple of powered SATA docking stations and simply extend the NAS that way, effectively reducing the SATA requirement (I could get by with four provided I distribute the drives properly).

I could probably also get away with 8GB of system RAM (That’s what I’ve been using for a while), but I also occasionally perform some very memory hungry source builds (so much so that I’ve had to hand over a chunk of swap space on occasion – rarely used but a godsend when it is).

Some (many) of my blender works are hitting the 4GB VRAM limit on my system (and if I’m honest, even 6GB may be too little for some), which means I want to maximise both GPU and CPU performance (CPU for when it simply cannot fit in the GPU RAM – also a reason for increasing system RAM).

If I’m honest, even the PSU is relatively unimportant, if it can feed my current rig sans drives and display, since I have a 850W Corsair hybrid in there, which I could simply swap for any PSU in the new machine. Having said that, the TDP on the Phenom is considerably higher than the Ryzen, and it would still need to feed the GTX680 for CUDA. The plan ATM is to relegate my current rig to a simple, bare bones render box.

 

I did manage to do a custom estimate at about £880, which with some modification and swapping with my current rig, could be do-able. Of course, it would be nice not to have to start modifying a new build before it’s even got an OS.

Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

[Dave Rice]

If you want someone to build it for you you’re going to have to decide where to compromise or up the budget.

Personally I would do what the buyer of mega build has done. Look on it as an investment that will last 5 years + (your current rig must be 7 – 8?) and up the budget to get something that will not be having you regret your decisions.

I did much the same with my laptop. I didn’t need an i5 and 12GB of ram but I’m glad I did now. #1 son has come home to finish his PhD writing up and my office – his bedroom – is no longer available. There is nowhere practical to move the PC that’s got the specialist CCTV design software on it.  Had I compromised on a dual core and 4GB ram for the laptop I’d now be stuffed.

[D-Dan]

Usually, I would agree, and more so with a laptop. Having said that, I’ve built my own for maybe 20 years, and this is literally the first time I’m thinking of handing a build over to someone else.

Having said that, with my build experience, and the versatility of the desktop, I can keep the cost down to a minimum, and still get the system I want with a little re-cycling.

 

EDIT: Nope. Components as described are still coming in at close to £1,000 (Scan). May as well get one built.

As has been suggested, I could alternatively get a new MB, CPU, GFX card and RAM (and possibly a new chassis) and simply build up, but if I can do it in such a way that keeps this rig going (which despite its age, is still pretty powerful), so much the better.

Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

[Bob Williams]

As Dave will probably verify, parts and whole builds have continued to rise in price. My grandson is researching a Gamer Build for his almost 13 yo sister, via his company, with the boss’ blessing (gson has become his main man). He is struggling with price and trying to future-proof a machine for an increasingly gamer-competent baby sister’s birthday. The whole family is going to finance the necessary, now that granddad and grandma have leaned upon them. This is a very bright girl, heading for A and A* grades, according to all her tutors. Cannot be fobbed off with any old Pony, and never liked dolls, hated the colour pink and was playing with dinosaurs and dragons from about 2. Has been playing Minecraft for years, until she got bored and big bro showed her Eve Online and other games.

She also wants to get into stuff like Blender and other graphics programmes, wants to have try out CAD. All will be catered for by big bro, who last year decided she was no longer annoying little sis, now that she shares his interests.

Siblings. (sigh!)

She is not one-dimensional: a good athlete, loves Art and has produced some good stuff for the walls at her grammar school, a painting from last year is in the Head’s office. She is also studying Spanish and later wants German, has danced with a local dance school since about 6, is in the Guides since Rainbows. An amazing young lady, with a bright future. Whole family are very proud of her, with absolutely no jealousy. At family “do’s” she always winds up in close conversation with her 19 yo dyslexic cousin: that has been the same since they were both very much younger. I have an astonishingly different group of grandbrats.

Wow I have just realised how far this Thread has wandered off topic, mostly thanks to me! Sorry guys!

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[D-Dan]

OK, the refund has landed today, so the search is on for the most economical builder. Overclockers.uk are coming in at more than £1,400, Scan at £1,200. Found one today (whilst at work, and forgot to send myself a link) that can do it at £953.

Ryzen 7, GTX1060 6Gb, 16Gb in a decent chassis.

All with no drives (I really don’t need anymore), and the cheapest includes a card reader (OK, the cost is negligible – £4, I think), and whilst I can mitigate the cost more if I sell my existing rig (to be decided), I’m looking for the most cost-efficient system builder, so recommendations?

 

EDIT: I’ll probably wait until the end of the month – GPU prices are predicted to drop.

Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

[The Duke]

Bob the way intel swap their socket evey 2 to 3 years, it’s just not worth over thinking the future proof side of things.

Get the best cpu you can afford, an in 4 years upgrade the gpu.

I recall people on mm (probably Dave) saying don’t build a system on the frost get core I socket, as intel already gave it an end of life date before it had even come to market.

I built one anyway, (I built 2), that was now 10 years ago, it’s had a new gpu an ssd and gone for 4gb to 8gb ram since then, and still handles gaming just about. It does 1080p on med setting.

Since the launch of core I, I tell seem to change their sockets evey 2 years, so there is no future proofing.

Luckily for everyone, consumer software is way behind consumer hardware, so any higher mid range cpu you get, will be good for at least 5 years at gaming.

I built my gaming rigs thinking 5 years they will be dead, as pre that, gaming rigs would last a year or two, so I thought 5 would be a stretch, evey year after about year 4, I’ve though this year is the year. But when I want to push it, it still works for me. And I think of better uses for the £1k.

The days when I’m dropping below 60fps constantly is the day I’ll start considering an upgrade.

My tip would be is to stick with a 1080p screen to game on. Sort of goes again the gaming PC ethos of having the best screen money can buy,  but I’m happy at 1080p, and more to the point my cpu and gpu is. If I upped to a 1440p screen, the rig would probably fall over. But it is a ten year old set up. That’s like 150 in pc years.

I’d say get a 1440p screen, and a blazing rig. And as long as you stick with 1440p screen, the rig should last 5 or 6 years, with just a gpu update in 4 years.

[Ed P]

A slight disagreement with Steve on monitors. While he is directionally correct more games are increasingly moving the 4K route.

However with respect to Dan’s Blender hobby I have a major disagreement – in that case screen real estate is a huge plus. My ‘Apple’ son uses two 4K monitors. One is almost completely reserved for modelling assets (texture maps shader routines etc), That screen is always choc-bloc full as he uses it as a way of calling up assets from his server. The other screen is his work/modelling screen. The texture asset screen serves a dual purpose as he flips it across to rendering output when modelling is complete.

[Bob Williams]

Sorry guys, but the Gdaughter’s desktop has been delivered, sorted by IT engineer grandson and gdaughter’s big brother. I have no idea of the spec’s, but I do know that he will obtained best bang for bucks and will be OK to upgrade it over the coming years. A decent monitor has been sourced from among the family to use now, then Christmas will probably see her getting something better.

I appreciate the advice from both EdP and Steve and will remember it when I come to source a monitor. Ed, my grandson also has (2x) 24″ monitors at home, at work he has a battery of FOUR 27″ screens. I have no idea what models they are, but the ones at his flat are fantastic 4K setups. There is even a 22″ screen in the Server Room at the flat (spare bedroom) but don’t ask me what he does with that. The days when I built his first PC when he was a child, are long gone! He uses one for gaming and one for the work he does at home, connected by a phone service direct from work. He is always on standby, as he set up 3 remote systems for large contracts and no one else really knows how they work. He baffles his boss I think, and he has been working in IT and building the business for almost 20 years. Gson grins at me and says “I am indispensable, granddad.” His salary is very good now, but when he has finished a new Microsoft course at Lincoln Uni (2 days a week) it will be much larger.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[D-Dan]

To refine my last question, anyone have any experience of https://www.freshtechsolutions.co.uk/

Reviews are mixed, but honestly, the bad reviews to me look like errors between the chair and the keyboard.

Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

[Ed P]

Sorry no, but I have had two good experiences with Chillblast over an eight year period.

[PlaneMan]

Zoostorm used to do very well in reviews. Pointed a few people at them years ago and no complaints.

OFC check first

[Dave Rice]

Zoostorm are great if you want their product as it is. By that I mean things like PSUs and motherboards are at the minimum to do the job. The same has to be said of big names like Lenovo and HP.

[D-Dan]

So as an update, in the past 36 hours, I find myself in need of emergency dental treatment, and the pain is such that I’m taking it.

So, for the moment, bye bye GTX1060 6Gb. On the plus side, I can get Ryzen 2700 in the build, and liquid cooling still within budget.

EDIT: My logic now is that the Ryzen and 16Gb RAM could get close to my current GTX680 (maybe a little slower, but I’m thinking the difference will not be critical) AND give me more than enough system RAM for those scenes that my current system struggles with.

 

Anyone want a Phenom X4 965, MB and 8GB RAM. Now looking for ways to fund the GFX card.

Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

[Ed P]

Dan I can sympathise with how you feel.

I went through a similar patch ten years ago,(possibly a ppi side-effect on my gut bacteria/vitamin/mineral balance) . My dentist was so shocked at the sudden deterioration that I was referred to the Royal Dental Hospital. Not only was treatment free, I received some great practical advice from the hygienist. It will not help you now, but her advice has subsequently resulted in a clean bill of health once the initial crap was cleared up.

a) Make frequent use of a fluorinated mouth wash. Swill three times/day even if you cannot brush your teeth.

b) Use an electric tooth brush such as ones made by Braun/Waterpik as these make a better job of cleaning the gum/tooth line than 99% of manual brushing. Angle head at 45 degrees to gum/tooth the idea being to push back the gum from the tooth and stop it trapping plaque. Minimum of twice/day.

c) If your flossing technique is bad (mine was) because of uneven gaps etc, then use a Waterpik high pressure flosser. I have found this to be a valuable addition. Don’t bother to look at battery ones they are useless by comparison.

[D-Dan]

It gets worse, having called the dental emergency line twice ysterday, the first to be offered treatment 3/4 hour later at a location I could not possibly reach in that time, and the second to book an emergency appointment locally for 1pm today, I find they had booked it at a different clinic an hour by rail away.

Third time lucky at 8am tomorrow. Aldi are probably happy with the Whisky sales (swilling a single malt around my mouth feels like a waste, but it works)

 

Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

[Richard]

Sounds like more or less normal the skill levels being applied are not quite as high as they could be and spacial awareness of travel considerations do not always register. I do not know what trains are like with you on a Sunday, but a strong thread and a car  bumper looks to be moving up your option list.

[Ed P]

Oil of Cloves is a good local anaesthetic for mouth/gum issues. Do not over-do as it can burn like hell!.

[Richard]

All hyperbole aside I wish you success with today’s third try at getting relief for your problem and trust that it will not be just a sticking plaster type action.

[Author]

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