Getting an electricity refund

[D-Dan]

I finally got around to doing a meter reading, and as a result, I’m getting a refund of nearly £1,300. Gonna be a couple of weeks before it arrives, but already burning a hole in pocket, so time for a new PC. My current rig is AMD Phenom X4 965, gtx 670 4GB. Ignore the drives (many and can be migrated). Looking at:

Computer Case
Cooler Master N 300

CPU
Intel i5 8600K – (6 x 3.6 GHZ – Turbo 6 x 4.3 GHZ) – Coffee Lake – (FREE Warhammer Vermintide & X-Morph Defense Games Included)

CPU Cooling
Game Max Iceberg RGB (Advanced Liquid Cooling)

Memory
16GB 2666MHz (1x16GB) – Lifetime Warranty (DDR4)

Graphics Card
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 – 6 GB – (PCI-E) – DVI/DP/HDMI – HD/4K/VR – Supports 4 Monitors

Motherboard
Asus PRIME H310M-K (Intel H310) – 4xUSB 3.1/6xUSB 2.0

Sound Card
Motherboard Integrated HD Sound

Wired Networking
Motherboard Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet Lan (Broadband Ready)
Power Supply
EVGA 750W (Modular) PSU – Low Noise

CPU Compound
Standard CPU Compound Supplied With Heatsink

Extra Case Fans
Standard Fans Included With Case

Power Cable
1 x 1.8 Metre UK Mains Power Cable

Build & Test Service
Built & Tested – 9 Working Days

Warranty
3 Year Standard Warranty (2 Year Collect & Return)

Just under £1,000 delivered.

Now, been a good while since I built or configured (my current machine is 20 years old, and very much a Trigger’s broom – updated and upgraded piecemeal over the years), so how will this compare, especially gfx and CPU (I do a lot of Blenedr stuff, remember, and love GPU rendering, so the extra 2GB on the gfx card would be handy, but does the 1060 out-perform the 670, for example). Any other comments?

Looking for genuine advice – this will be my (literally 1st) Intel machine.

Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

[Richard]

I have had a few refunds, but that one is a prize winner.

[The Duke]

I once had a £1500 quarter bill,(storage heaters, first winter), but never seen a refund like this.

It is a massive annoyance to me that these companies don’t auto adjust your monthly dd payments to meet your usage. They all over charge and you have to initiate the adjustment.

[Ed P]

Dan, given your interest in using Blender, I wonder if a Ryzen might not give you much better bang for your buck. link

Since this was published Ryzen have upped their game very substantially. link

I have a Ryzen 7 1800 (old stepping) and I am very happy with it. I’d be even happier if I had left it until the Ryzen 2 series had come out! I’ve also got an AMD Radeon Pro WX 7100 which was said to be a good graphics workstation GPU with good general capabilities including VR.

[Dave Rice]

Build looks OK for Intel but I would agree about the Ryzen.

There’s a Phoronix article The Fastest Linux Distribution For Ryzen: A 10-Way Linux OS Comparison On Ryzen 7 & Threadripper http://tinyurl.com/yanfpjah

 

[Richard]

The Duke wrote:

I once had a £1500 quarter bill,(storage heaters, first winter), but never seen a refund like this. It is a massive annoyance to me that these companies don’t auto adjust your monthly dd payments to meet your usage. They all over charge and you have to initiate the adjustment.

A few years back the stupid squad failed to notice that my meter was not changing rates at the set time, in fact was not changing rates at all. Its clockwork bit went on strike so one meter showing all the use and the other one showed zero. This went on for several years and no one noticed. In most outfits a non moving meter earns a few comments. That took a while to sort out as they had to split the old usage across the two rates. Studies showed that it was not worth our while to have the two rates so we went on a constant rate basis. It did not stop a half blind subsequent reader inventing a summer meter reading, suggesting we used three or four winter month’s consumption in one quarter. No one noticed that at the time either, it was only when I entered the then ‘today reading’ and found it was thousand of units less than the ‘previous random number’ that the stink of something rotten emerged.

[D-Dan]

@ Everyone surpised – I think it’s more a case of the previous tenant who may, or may not have paid his bills, and so my monthly payment was set according to that. I just never bother checking the meter since I saw it as a saving scheme that I couldn’t escape from.

@Ed I know Ryzen are the latest dog’s bollocks, but there are still some issues with the Linux kernel, and for rendering, I try to use GPU only wherever possible. NV is much much better supported with CUDA, and CPU wise, I don’t think there’s much between Ryzen and a good I5.

Having said that, just found https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fierce-High-End-PC-Desktop-Computer/dp/B06XPKWMN2/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1529754130&sr=8-17&keywords=i7%2Bnvidia%2Bpc&th=1

Which looks like a good deal to me, given my limited knowledge of more recent hardware. I’ve messaged to see if I can get it without Windows (at a discount, obviously). For drives, I have 2 SSDs, 4 internal HDs and 2 USB HDs in service at the moment, so HD space is not my biggest concern (something in the region of 5TB available).

Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

[D-Dan]

Given the replies whilst I was typing, maybe I’ll look for a Ryzen/Nvidia combo.#

EDIT: I was hoping to stay below £1,000 – but maybe https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyberpower-Conqueror-1060-Gaming-PCI/dp/B0753RLKW6/ref=sr_1_6?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1529755151&sr=1-6&keywords=ryzen%2Bnvidia%2Bpc

But the question remains, given that the Phenom is still a damn good CPU, and the 670 is still a damn good gfx card, will I see enough of an improvement to justify the cost?

 

Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

[Dave Rice]

I get to jump between that era kit and modern stuff all the time and several are X4 Phenoms. It’s a different league these days. I think you’re right about the graphics cards though.

Why don’t you just get a motherboard / CPU / ram bundle (maybe a case too) rather than a whole system? Amazon i5 8600K here including some with liquid cooling.

[D-Dan]

I did consider just going for a further upgrade, but the extra 2Gb on the gfx card is tempting (and I do find myself running out of GPU RAM). Even if for speed the 1060 is only on a par with the 670, it would probably be worth the outlay. Of course, if the 1060 is a step down, then it’s a different matter, in which case I may have to re-examine my options or bite the bullet and go for a 1070.

Besides, sometimes shiny and new just feels nice, and I can put my current rig devoid of any desktop in a corner to use just as a render box.

Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

[Ed P]

Although there were problems <August 2017 when doing heavy compilation work, it seems that Ryzen is now rock solid on Linux. link

[Dave Rice]

From what I can see the 670’s memory throughput is slightly quicker but the 1060 has slightly more CUDA cores, plus of course the extra ram.

[wasbit]

I use Passmark to see how different graphics cards compare

– https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

GTX670 = 1222-5372
GTX1060 = 7365-9606

How these figures translate to real life, I don’t know.

--
Regards
wasbit

Rig 1: Optiplex 3050 SFF
Rig 2: Asus ROG G20CB (rebuilt wreck)
Rig 3: HP Elitebook 8440P

Dear Starfleet, hate you, hate the Federation, taking Voyager. - Janeway

[Dave Rice]

This is a bit different. D-Dan is only interested in the CUDA cores and not things like frame rates.

Found a range of device benchmarks here and depending on task individual performance can vary wildly but there is a general pattern.

 

[Ed P]

Phoronix have some (May 2018) Ryzen benchmarks, and you may wish to dig into the Blender Barbershop GPU benchmarks too.

[D-Dan]

It seems I don’t even know what I have. It’s not a GTX670 – it’s a GTX680.

Nevertheless, hunting down some comparisons shows that the 1060 still outperforms the 680.

Now, I just need to find a custom system builder at the right price. Looking for a Ryzen 7 1700 (minimum), gtx 1060 6Gb, 16 Gb RAM, and a decent MB (with 6 sata inputs at least and onboard HD 5:1 minimum audio). Preferably 1Gb ethernet, wireless not important, drives not important, decent case and good build.

 

EDIT: Oh, and whilst not a deal breaker, water cooled would be nice.

My aim is to get this below £900.

Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

[Dave Rice]

Just totting up the cost of the parts and a 1700 without liquid cooling it’s £900.

The 6 drives are a big problem for 2 reasons.

1. AMD only has 4 SATA ports but there are 2 SATA Express which some manufacturers repurpose as an extra 2 SATA. This pushes you up the motherboard scale to the more expensive end.
2. Getting a case to deal with 6 x drives. People just don’t have 6 drives these days. 1 x SSD and 1 x large spinner for storage. They are about, something like the Antec 302, but the cabling becomes a nightmare and the cooling options are limited as the drives go where you’d put a fan, plus they add extra heat.

 

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

You do have to be careful picking a new graphics card. I once got a 6300 to replace an FX5600 and it was only about 2 thirds as fast !

Have a look at Palicomp if you want a  whole new PC. I like their system builder.

[Dave Rice]

E-Buyer have a 1700X bundle deal. Here’s what could be done if I was starting from scratch i.e. ignore any existing components.

Gigabyte AX370M-DS3H Motherboard with Ryzen 7 1700X Processor and SSD Bundle 841824 £297.98
(Free Item) AMD Ryzen 7 1700X 8 Core AM4 CPU/Processor 778679 £0.00
(Free Item) ADATA Ultimate 120GB SSD – 2.5 840831 £0.00
Psu Vs550w 80+ 834999 £43.98
Toshiba P300 3TB 3.5” SATA High-Performance Hard Drive (OEM) 726224 £65.57
Corsair Carbide Spec-03 Series Blue Led Mid-tower Gaming Case 705405 £41.99
MSI GeForce GTX 1060 AERO ITX 6G OC GDDR5 Graphics Card 819765 £249.99
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 PC4-19200 2400MHz DIMM C16 Memory Kit 739888 £147.39
Corsair Hydro Series H55 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler 410726 £67.97
£914.87

[Ed P]

Dan, a question/consideration for you. Why SIX SATA ports? I assume as you only want ports you are using existing drives.

If these drives are only used irregularly I’d suggest you look at treating a number of them as external drives attached via USB3 and copy across contents as required. If you want super-fast drives I’d also suggest that you use a ram drive, or a pci-e connected m drive, and copy from the external drives to the super-fast drive as required. Other than being Apple based this is the way my #1 son works as he cannot afford the Apple-tax on hardware. (he has nearly 100 terabytes of graphic assets – textures etc). He saves money but needs a little organisation in his disk storage, and uses a server to fire over the data as needed – space permitting you could repurpose your existing machine as a server.

[Author]

Posts