Dying PC?

[Les.]

This morning I switched on bench power, pressed button on computer, NOTHING! Closer inspection showed a little amber LED inside, not sure but I think the 3v always on. Tried various things, but nothing helped, so PSU out, dismantle (not easy, a tightly packed shuttle PSU) but visually nothing to see. No bulging caps (a thing of the past now I believe) and no dry joints to see. I checked the 6.3 amp fuse, two possible low value fusible resistors, and took out the main post rectifiers smoothing cap. Slightly low capacitance, but very good ESR (0.86 ohms). No point in going further, nothing that comes to mind left (no high value resistors in start up like earlier types. Put it all back together.

Off on the bike for a club run but 100yds from start, the bike cut out. No ignition lights. A few quick checks, probably the ignition relay. Push off home, fortunately not far. Stop for a breather (I am an old man remember) and a pal pulls up. Tell him what I think, turn on ignition to show blank display, but just as I turn off, I see a red light briefly. Switch back on, all working! Ride home, strip off side panels, seat, tank, and replace suspect relay. Put everything back together. Give up on the run!

So, after evening meal, put power supply back in computer, switch on, and it fires up!

So what next (with computer, I think the bike is a success), is it a PSU fault that I have temporarily shocked back to life, or is there an intermittent  fault hiding on the main board waiting to die properly?

I think I have had this 7 or 8 years now, is it time to replace? Do I buy a new PSU or go for a completely new computer. I like this, now it has got its 4GB of Ram, it performs better than previously, but if the MB fails???

Suggestions please.

Les.

It is a Shuttle SN78SH7 if that helps

[Ed P]

Gremlins!

But seriously after 7/8 years things fail. One that could cause an issue is the CMOS battery is in the process of dying – check if the date/time on the pc is correct.

[Les.]

Just to be safe, I left it on overnight and it stayed on. Switch off this afternoon, and restarted OK. If it plays up again, I will swop the Cmos battery, all simple lithium types these days.

I looked on Ebay for replacement PSUs, and £30-£40 will get something, but another search brought in various shuttles, many older some identical and also quite a few newer than mine. An identical one would allow diagnosis of actual fault (if it recurs), as PSU or MB. However I did look at this one:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shuttle-XPC-Cube-SH87R6-Barebones-System/283198528717?hash=item41eff29ccd:g:lQUAAOSwa6JbueYR:rk:1:pf:0

With data sheet here:-

http://global.shuttle.com/news/productsSpec?productId=1707

This could be a better solution. Not sure of its build date (mine is 2010), and I would need to purchase PCU and RAM. What type and rough cost would these cost? (Dave? you usually have a handle on costs)

Cheers, Les.

[dwynnehugh]

One thing very similar happened to me a few years ago, in the end it was the ON/OFF switch / cable / plastic connector to the motherboard.

The more you meet people the more you understand why Noah took animals instead of humans

[Richard]

I have had a few go like that. Sometimes a good shake up such as you have given them and they would be right as rain for years. With others there just appeared to be something wrong with the start circuitry that i was never able to pin down, they would often start up fine after leaving the power off for a while and then re-powering them and starting up again. I guess they were a bit like I am now in the mornings.

[PlaneMan]

My Shuttle did exactly the same thing many years ago, it was my first post on the MM forum.

It turned out to be the motherboard failing.  I sold everything else and made enough for a new Mini ATX system.

[Dave Rice]

I’m on an extremely slow mobile network all week and just looking at the Forum in a free 5 mins. I think £100 is way too much, I think we could do new case / mobo / psu for that sort of money or not much more. The performance difference between the Haswells and the new CPUs is more than trivial, you can get extra cores too.

[D-Dan]

Oooh, Oooh. I have the basics of my, now unused, Phenom 964 X4 BE, with MB, cooler, case and 8Gb RAM going begging for £70. Of course, no drives, PSU or Gfx card.

Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

[Les.]

Hugh, I did try shorting the on-off contacts at the button, but not actually on MB itself. Will bare in mind.

Richard, still going fine, almost as though it did not happen.

PM, not what I want to hear. But I will not be surprised.

Dave, I have been cautioned that Shuttles are overpriced, but I like the small space they occupy, whereas the modern SFF types are not to my liking at all. Probably just silly of me, but Hey Ho!

OK, Dan, you have got me interested. I don’t know the Phenom, is it a little quiet one or a barnstorming noisy one? My current (2010 year) shuttle has an AMD Athlon II – 250, very low power job, and since I went from 2GB to 4GB, it handles everything I need. Correction, just checked.  That would fit the existing Shuttle, but obviously giving it a BOOST. Double the power consumption on same fab size.

But please tell me more, and maybe send me a few photos etc. to manxduke at manx dot net. What size PSU is needed.

Definitely interested. Les.

 

[D-Dan]

Give me until weekend and I’ll get you a couple of pics.

Arch Linux, on a Ryzen 7 1800X, 32 GB, 5 (yes -5) HDs inc 5 SSDs, 4 RPi 3Bs + 1 RPi 4B - one as an NFS server with two more drives, PiHole (shut yours), Plex server, cloud server, and other random Pi stuff. Nice CoolerMaster case, 2 x NV GTX 1070 8GB, and a whopping 32" AOC 1440P monitor.

[Dave Rice]

A case I’ve used a lot is the Cooler Master Elite 130 Mini ITX Case, it’s a bit wider and deeper than the Shuttle but the same height. This allows it to use a normal ATX PSU, but I tend to get semi-modular ones to cut down on cable clutter.

It also has room for some proper cooling and I find the included front 120mm is enough for what we’re talking about, but there is a rear side 80mm included too (aimed at the mobo expansion slots).

[Les.]

Thanks Dave. I will see what DDan has to show me, but he said it included a case. That looks a decent shape and size, but I am so out of touch with “normal” PC hardware (if there is any normal) so your comments always welcxome.

It has of course behaved itself since last Sunday of course.

Les.

[Dave Rice]

There’s loads of options Les. If Dan’s isn’t suitable we’ll soon spec something in a small enclosure.

[Les.]

I had the photos off DDan, but it has a full size ATX case, and the M/B would no go into a smaller case, so I declined his offer. However I have now located another Shuttle, same version as mine but with extra stuff (multi card reader) and a higher spec micom. One quarter of the cost of the one I linked to a few days ago. Should be here in a day or so.

Thanks to everybody who chimed in, and especially Dave, who I see looked at an NUC. I looked at a few specs of those last week, but concluded not good enough. Maybe they are. They would certainly have met my size considerations.

Of course, this one has not given any trouble since original issue, and that included leaving it on overnight Sunday to get the MotoGP via Kodi. It recorded all the prior football, but once into the lower race, it lost connection. I decided to watch tonight on Ch 5, but (just my luck), they ran it LAST night instead.

Les.

[Dave Rice]

The older Celerons, probably not. The Silver Pentium I’d like to get my hands on. The i5, especially with an M2 SSD, will be very nice indeed.

[Les.]

I am wondering if it is time for a re-think on hard drives. SSDs have been around a while now, and I am under the impression that originally they were rather flaky, as well as small (capacity wise) and expensive. That lead to many using a small SSD for the boot drive, with a spinner for main storage. Is it fair to think that ALL of these concerns are now behind us. I had both an old 500 GB IDE spinner and a useful little  laptop spinner pack up last year, but fortunately, though used for backups, I still had an intact working drive. This fresh Shuttle will have a 500GB spinner, which could become my main storage backup. My current total storage is around 100 to 120 GB, so a 240 GB SSD would cover my needs for many more years. (I managed with a 10GB SCSI 15 years ago, and everything on there is a part of today’s total, so it really does grow slowly). Comments please, and suggestions based on cost and likely reliability.

Les.

[Dave Rice]

Apart from specialist uses, spinners are dead. I am even moving beyond 2.5″ SSDs now to M2 models (they sit in a socket on the mobo) as having built a PC with one I can see how much faster they are again.

The last laptop I bought for a customer was a Lenovo V330 with a Core i5-8250U (4 cores, 8 threads, 3.4Ghz), 8GB RAM, and a 256GB M2 SSD (£519). I want one!

Once these 8th generation CPUs start making their way into the SFF barebones world you really will have pocket rockets behind your monitor(s). Some 7th Gen even now have 2 x HDMI Iris graphics and up to 32GB ram.

[Les.]

In Dave’s previous reply about NUCs, he mentioned M2-SSDs, so I went looking on Ebay to survey the scene.

Today I saw his latest post, which made me stop and think. My last 10 years work was part time building individually specified PCs. Well over 1000 builds, but unlikely twice that. Whilst I avoided the software side as much as possible (never understood “digital”), I was completely up to date on hardware. Now, twelve years since retirement, that last message shows me just how out of touch I am. So much of it just flew over my head! Obviously I did not realise the significance of the M2 bit, and who his “Iris” is I have no idea.

So, back to SSDs. How much do I pay for a new 256GB. I assume I avoid all the “refurbished” ones I see. Are they all good, or only go for well known ones (Samsung, Toshiba, WD etc.).

I will have two SATA spinners, each 500GB either of which I can connect to USB with a little adaptor. Am I better to get an enclosure for back up purposes, or just link up ad hoc from time to time. I am starting to realise just how much important stuff I have in my documents folder, from ‘bikes through engineering, electronics, radio, electronic test equipment, combustion stuff, and even a bit of computer stuff. I guess after last years HDD failure scare, I should keep the two separate each with a copy. Again, I am a bit ignorant of best backup practice.

Les.

[JayCeeDee]

Les – there’s a good few examples of prices in THIS topic. It started out as 120GB, but the new cheap norm has gone to 240Gb.

It’s worth a read for price points and a few good links to SSD forumites have used and still are at the core of their systems.

I got a 120Gb some time ago, but had to compromise on some programmes staying on the spinner. It’s almost cheap enough now to have a 240Gb SSD for the OS and all programmes and a 240/480Gb for all data with backups going to the spinner.

Edit – forgot to add that Dave will probably recommend a NAS for backups – again prices coming down, but that might have to be Tamara’s Christmas pressie, if you get the hint in early enough!! Good luck.

[Dave Rice]

I forget what Les does for backup, but I know we’ve spoken about it before. NAS are great if you do file sharing or have a business to run (indeed I think essential for the latter).

One thing I do with old 2.5″ spinners is get a sub £10 USB 3 enclosure for them and give them back to the customer together with an EaseUS (free) backup schedule on their device. It’s up to them if they remember to plug the thing in but at least I now there’s been 1 full system backup ?

[Author]

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