Crowded WiFi Neighbourhood

[Dave Rice]

I recently changed my home access point to a UAP-AC-LR, which means I can now deal with every flavour of WiFi. It also means I can detect all my neighbouring APs.

This is my neighbourhood, approximately a 300 metre square. As you can see it’s not exactly wall to wall houses, yet I can see 84 SSIDs from 67 devices (the businesses opposite and many new ISP routers broadcast multiple SSIDs ). Only 7 of these are 5Ghz.

On 2.4 Ghz Channel 11 = 29, Channel 6 = 24, Channel 1 = 21

But in the last 30 days I’ve actually detected 130 including 18 Android hotspots  and 4 HP printers 3 of which have no security (oh the temptation). In fact excluding FON there are 18 open networks. It also captures manufacturers and even if these aren’t specified I can look that up from the first 6 digits of the mac address.

When I take the UAPs out for site surveys they’ve detected another 114. Bear in mind these can be battery powered (as I do) so dead easy to chuck in a vehicle or even a back pack for a bit of exploit detecting.

So if you haven’t already, update your firmware, make sure all the passwords have been changed from the default and put WPA2 security on the SSID. Don’t bother hiding the SSID or having white lists of devices, I’ll get past that in seconds.

[The Duke]

For the same reason these aps are open, is the same reasons phishing emails work. Alot of people are simply  ignorant to the dangers they put themselves in and just don’t understand tech.

This will only get worse as iot exponentially grows.

[Ed P]

Unfortunately there is not much chance of things changing as those in charge of the country are technically and scientifically illiterate. (never mind the Grade D GCSE maths of the likes of Diane Abbot – who I’m sure has lots of soul mates in Parliament).

[Bob Williams]

About 12 months ago, I saw many examples of this around my area, so I contacted the village newsletter and highlighted it. Between myself and the editor, we produced a guide detailing what to do. Unfortunately, the newsletter ‘forgot’ my instruction not to give my name. I received a lot of thank you calls and two examples of why I did not want my name in print. One badly-spelled note through the letterbox and one call, both requesting in similar terms that I mind my own business.

The note was a big mistake, by certain details in the horrible wording, it was obviously someone I knew and it contained obscenities. I contacted the police and they paid him a visit. The phone call was from someone in a large house who had once asked my help with a problem. I was tempted to operate their printer, but resisted and simply went round and demonstrated what could happen. He apologised, thanked me profusely and offered to pay me to put it right. I sent my huge No.2 gson round instead, for some pocket money. I still see some examples of this, occasionally the newsletter reprints the article (minus my name) and headlines it. You can’t help some people, they see advice as an attack on their lack of knowledge.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Dave Rice]

Of the home users, only 2 other people besides me have changed the default SSID of their router so it’s easy to see the split of ISPs.

BT = 12, TT – 10, Sky = 5, Vodaphone = 1, Plusnet = 1

All of the businesses use Cisco with the exception of the Nuffield Health gym which is TP-Link.

Well I find it interesting  :wacko:

Imagine how much of this sort of info Google has collected. You can sort of see why some Governments take a dim view of Google street view collection.

[Ed P]

Even using WPA2-PSK you need a 64 hex character key to minimise the risk from rainbow table attacks (GRC generator).  A few worldly wise people I know just leave their network wide open as they reckon it would be a lot easier to show no security than demonstrate that someone using rainbow tables and enough time had hacked into their system. Twisted logic I know, but I can see where they are coming from! (This is illegal in Germany as it stuffs up monitoring by their security services.)

[Richard]

I will be the first to admit that my portable is not the best tool for the job, but I have just fired it up, today it sees 6 available points, sadly I have to admit that several are possibly mine, (though one entry appears rogue and might not even exist?) and one is an ASUS_2.4  with a very strong signal. All are secured including one by the enigmatic name of Fred. The printers have all gone AWOL for the past few days, but working from memory they were also noted as secured. No one appears to use a carrier’s own identifiable router or Wifi system. Though makers’ own SSIDs are used for a number of the devices

Perhaps all my neighbours have read the warnings, next door is a BT person but none of the rest are known to have any such connections.

Interestingly, the ASUS has just disappeared, only to pop back up with near zero signal strength, only to be replaced by a Belkin_N which disappeared as its weak signal fell off again – it was secured

 

[The Duke]

Mine all called silly name. My main ones are CID listing van, GCHQ snooper, NSA detector, The Borg,  kids, and Guest.

I also have a host of stuff that gives off ap signal, my light bulbs, and the roku’s  I can’t seem to change any passwords for (or see a pw) . So I suppose they are open to an attack. But if that person could find their way onto my network via any of them, I’m sure they would have the knowledge to  brute force the main APs. So I’m not to concerned.

[Ed P]

Richard if you want to look for unsecured video then look at Shodan – the tool professionals (legitimately) use to pen-test security cameras.

[Richard]

I was only wanting to know if there were many WiFi spots that were open in my area. I appears there are very few if any; deeper diving might be a good idea as a mental exercise but it is not one I need for the moment. There are too many other issues which are far from stimulating, but cut the day into many different often useless bits of time.

[Drezha]

Dave Rice wrote:

Of the home users, only 2 other people besides me have changed the default SSID of their router so it’s easy to see the split of ISPs. BT = 12, TT – 10, Sky = 5, Vodaphone = 1, Plusnet = 1 All of the businesses use Cisco with the exception of the Nuffield Health gym which is TP-Link. Well I find it interesting Imagine how much of this sort of info Google has collected. You can sort of see why some Governments take a dim view of Google street view collection.

I considered changing the latest one but it seemed like more effort than not as it was WPA2 protected anyhow. Once I’m connected, I very rarely ever have to look for it again.

"Everything looks interesting until you do it. Then you find it’s just another job" - Terry Pratchett

[Dave Rice]

Most people are the same. When I install a Ubiquiti system for home users no-one has ever asked me to change the SSID from the one I made up.

[The Duke]

You could have fun, and pit things like ‘the Women@no#7HasSecretToyboy.

Or just calls your something disgusting, then the locals won’t click on it at all.

[Drezha]

I dunno – I’m temped to to try and add an open network and then install Upside-Down-Ternet.

I think if it was just me, then I might change the internet over, but dealing with the fallout after I change it once the girlfriend has connected means it’s easier to leave it as it is :whistle: That, and I forget how many devices connect to the Wi-Fi and need setting up again!

I’ve not checked the local wifi to see what channels people are on – the wifi seems to work OK on our phones etc so I’ve not yet needed to investigate speeds.

"Everything looks interesting until you do it. Then you find it’s just another job" - Terry Pratchett

[Dave Rice]

I don’t understand the premise. If neighbours are stealing your internet access then surely you need to see to your security not spend effort on turning web page content upside down?

[Ed P]

I think Drezha was thinking of DONATING surplus access. I never consider I am stealing access if I use an open wifi link, neither do I abuse it as bandwidth is in any case restricted.

[Dave Rice]

There’s no need to shout. It wasn’t aimed at Drezha but the person who put the effort into Upside-Down-Ternet.

“My neighbours are stealing my wireless internet access. I could encrypt it or alternately I could have fun.”

I think that tells us all we need to know. Clever dick, probably can’t be trusted to come in out of the rain. I’ll bet they nick other people’s milk from the work fridge too.

[Drezha]

Ed P wrote:

I think Drezha was thinking of DONATING surplus access. I never consider I am stealing access if I use an open wifi link, neither do I abuse it as bandwidth is in any case restricted.

Yeah – I would find it amusing. However, the only reason I’d consider it is because it’s almost copy and paste – I wouldn’t do it myself from scratch. And I can’t do it anyhow, as my router doesn’t have a guest network, so it’s on the “I’d find it amusing” list but to much effort.

"Everything looks interesting until you do it. Then you find it’s just another job" - Terry Pratchett

[The Duke]

In the USA there is a law thst if you secure your WiFi poorly and some gets on and runs up a bill, it’s on your head. If you leave the box (router) how it came the bill is on the providers head.

Very much like here, if you shovel the snow outside your house and some trips, your culpable, but if you leave the snow, it’s not your fault. I think in the US you are responsible  to clear the snow.

So alot of people don’t secure their WiFi, for this reason.

Many providers in the US, and I think BT now do it here (I’m not with BT), let people connect to any BT hub, with is a great idea. I’m sure the extra data strangers use doesn’t count against your personal data cap. It would be a simple thing to set up, basically a guest network.

I suppose this could be an issue if you lived in a city or town centre, where your bandwidth could be eaten up, but I suppose the guest network is throttled. That’s easy enough to do, I can do that with my router, on a network basis and on a device basis via its Mac address.

For years I kept an ap open, but as phone WiFi reception has got so much better, I can pick my own WiFi up on my Pixel and 6p from a good way away.

[Ed P]

If you join BT Wifi (probably any FON) you agree to making your access point into a BT Wifi point which is restricted to other BT or FON users. In return you get access to all similar access points. The free BT wifi coverage is therefore quite extensive in city areas. link. This used to be BT Fon with the FON bit having international links – I’m not too sure of their relationship with international FON now, but I think it still works.

[Author]

Posts