Calling ricedg

[johnbarry]

Calling ricedg

My mobo won’t support Win 11 so I am seaking a mobo or rig with a fast (6 core,cheapo) that will support win 11.
Mostly a self build so I can get bits over time.

Reading your thread PC Update & New Venture you talk about FX6300 that sounds fast to me. However you seem to talk laptop, so is it for
a lap or desk top. But then I can’t find what it goes in.

Further reading you talk about AS-Rock AMD B450M-HDV motherboard

After a search, maybe a AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6 Core
but will this support win 11.

So what can you suggest for Win 11

Cheers
John

[Dave Rice]

Sorry John the series 1 Ryzens won’t cut it. More later. Delivery of the i7 is here.

[Dave Rice]

Sorry about that. My new machine is a PC and it’s way over the top for a general purpose duties. I got the R5 3600 because it was pretty much all I could get to go with the motherboard (and other bits) I already had. My son is after a new games PC and I am probably going to let him have it and “downsize” to an i3 (4 cores / 8 threads). Once upon a time this would have been called an i7.

For a good “office” or “social media” type PC you really only need 4 “cores”, 4GB of ram (8 if you can) and an SSD (an NVMe x 4 if you can).  It’s the SSD that makes it responsive, the ram gives Widows room to breathe and you really don’t need loads and loads of cores if they have nothing to do.

Windows 11 just isn’t exciting me, I’m not even slightly interested in it which is the first time ever. But the rules have changed, the biggest is that it needs a TMP security chip. That basically sorts itself out though as there is a list of CPUs that will be supported, Intel here and AMD here and by and large they have TPM built in.

OK, so the CPU has TPM but the motherboard must be capable of supporting it too. Luckily most motherboards of recent years will and each OEM has got a list to check. £70 – £100 will get you something very capable.

So, for most general purpose users a new £60 Pentium Gold will do fine and sort out the graphics too.  If anyone doubts this, it absolutely thrashes the 6th generation i5-6200U in this laptop – by 35% No-one is going to say an i5 of any generation isn’t a capable chip.

But, a 10th Gen i3 isn’t much more, and for geeks like us has lots more features. Unless you are gaming or other intensive computing there really is no need for anything more. That’s why I am quite happy to downsize my 6 core / 12 thread CPU to 4c / 8T and there will still be plenty of CPU left for my CCTV simulation software.

No mention of AMD? That’s because you can’t buy a W11 supported AMD CPU for less than £200, £250 for a 5th Gen Ryzen. Plus you need to shell out for a graphics card too, which are also in short supply even for the rubbish ones. This is the CPU I have and don’t really need. Once things are back to normal, a Ryzen 3 “G” (for onboard graphics) will be the ones to look for, the Ryzen 5 G if you want a bit more.

 

 

[johnbarry]

Thanks Dave

Very informative reply, just what I need.

I’m  usually years behind (from ME to XP to 7-10) I panicked a little after thinking 10 was the last now talk of 11. Especially when forumites have said to ditch ie XP.

Maybe not bother with 11, but possibly (saving your thread) look into it over time. Compared to your suggestions they will be out of date over the time I am thinking.

It gives me something to ponder and much appreciated.

Cheers
John

[johnbarry]

I keep coming back to this,  I like the idea of 6 core / 12 thread,  mobo

Am I on the right track for Windows 11 What PSU would you suggest.

Cheers
John

[Dave Rice]

Don’t do it.

[johnbarry]

O if you think not, I had better leave it then.

Any specific suggestions to do it.

Cheers
John

[Dave Rice]

I just think it will be overkill for you John, save your money by buying a cheaper CPU, like an i3. The only reason I didn’t was because I needed something in a hurry and the R5 3600 was the only thing I could buy that would fit the motherboard I already had. I had to buy a graphics card too, ouch. This was for work chasing a big contract, otherwise I’d still be waiting for things to calm down.

The one component that really makes a massive difference is an NVMe drive. The difference in price between an i5 and an i3 is more than the cost of a decent one, so it makes sense to buy a fast drive than more cores.

If I was starting from scratch right now this is what I’d be buying:

i3 10105 3.7GHz £125 This has onboard graphics and is better value than the F version + a cheap graphics card.

MSI B560M PRO Intel Socket 1200 Motherboard VGA, HDMI and Display Port £70 There are plenty at this price from all the OEMs. It’s hard to go wrong, but this has the latest chipset. Just make sure it has an M2 drive slot.

Kingston FURY Beast 8GB (1x 8GB) 2666MHz DDR4 RAM £35 Only a couple of quid more for much lower latency, but any DDR4 at this price will be fine. I wouldn’t get less then 8GB.

Adata XPG SX8200 Pro 256GB M.2-2280 SSD £38 A very fast SSD for the same money as others. The 512Gb version is £55. The WD Blue drives are good value too.

Cases are a very personal thing. I have the CiT S503 Desktop Case £38 and a GameMax GT-300W 300W 80+ Bronze PSU £30. You don’t need a larger PSU than that.

TBH John, you could save £75 by using a Pentium Gold G6405 4.1GHz and not notice any difference in day-to-day tasks.

If you need Wi-Fi get the MSI B460M PRO-VDH WIFI Motherboard VGA, HDMI and DVI £90. It has Bluetooth too. It’s better value than a pci-e card.

[johnbarry]

Thanks Dave

I think I have now got a plan, as regards day to day tasks at times I add thrasher tasks and will need more than the Pentium Gold will offer.

If 300w PSU is enough I think I have a case in the cupboard with a decent PSU (need to check)

I think I have sorted with all your suggestions, could you check for me please.

CPU

Mobo

Ram

SSD

 

Cheers
John

[Boris]

John

That  Core i3 10105F you linked does not have integrated graphics – a discrete graphics card will be required.

Never trust an atom - they make up everything !

[johnbarry]

Thanks Boris  its the second in Dave suggestion I will look at the first suggestion

Cheers
John

[Ed P]

John, it may help you if you write out your current usage and what irritates you so much about it. Sometimes things can be cured by simple things like a ram upgrade etc. A small pre-investment now in (say) a future-proof graphics card may buy you the time for the Win11 market to sort itself out.

If you just want the improved bling and sounds of Windows 11, then it may pay you to wait until Windows 11 is officially released. My bet is that the low cost box shifters will put together a minimalist spec that will run the OS acceptably, if not at blazing speeds. I’d also bet that AMD will have lower cost Ryzens that are Win11 compatible and beat the Intel offerings at lower cost.

[Ed P]

John, if it is just Win11 that excites you, then you should read this ElReg article as it will at least dampen your enthusiasm.

https://www.theregister.com/2021/08/26/windows_11_user_feedback/

As you will see, most of the complaints are with respect to the Start menu. Tbh I do not care as long as Stardock Fences still works! So far at least it does!

[johnbarry]

Thanks Ed

I am happy with what I have (HP Elite 8300, 500GB SSD, Intel(R) Core (TM) i5-3470 CPU @ 3.20GHz, Quad Core ) but I often look into faster.

On this occassion it was prompted by Windows 11 and my current PC won’t support it. I just want to go as fast as I can in everything. That’s starting with a Spectrum 128 through to Amiga (no programming required) Then finally a PC.

Sadly years on it’s still a PC, I am waiting for the next invention to beat a PC ?. With everything I need as standard.

Meanwhile it’ll be my next upgrade.

With what I hear (Dave and you all and what I read on the links) I am not to fussed on Windows 11, but it’ll be a shame to upgrade and lack the facitlity for 11..

I do have a case in the cupboard and it has a 500w PSU so I want to build (over time) in it.

I do cherish the support you guys give and take note.

Meanwhile I might sit back and see (as you suggest) what becomes available after launch. Hover it’s easier to purchase in steps than a complete new rig.

Cheers
John

[Ed P]

If it is ‘just’ faster then a Ram Drive cannot be beaten once you have loaded the required software onto the Ram.

if it interests you take a look a SoftPerfect RamDisk

https://www.softperfect.com/products/ramdisk/

[johnbarry]

Thanks Ed

Something to think about.

Re lookingI will stick with above plan and will need a graphics card.

I do struggle with  google earth pro I get messagesabout the graphics, so any suggestions appreciated

Any suggestions on graphics

Cheers
John

[johnbarry]

That’s my Bithday present sorted for 2021, thanks to all for the input mainly Dave for the recomendations.

I am excited and looking forward to the parts arriving.

I just need a graphics card suggestion for this mobo

Cheers
John

[Dave Rice]

It must be half height (aka low profile) as your case won’t take full height ones. So you must make sure it does have the right brackets in the box.

Asus GeForce GT 710 2GB GDDR5 £50 Only get this if you can’t afford anything else.

Gigabyte GT 1030 Low Profile D4 2GB £80 All the current GT 1030 cards have only digital output i.e. no VGA. So if you have a VGA only monitor you’ll need an adapter like this for £8.

As you’ll be getting a graphics card now, especially if it’s the GT1030 (I have one in my R5 3600 PC), and you want to take it forward, you can look at CPUs for the new PC project that don’t have onboard graphics. For Intel that’s ones that end in F, for AMD ones that don’t end in G. That opens up a lot more options.

[johnbarry]

Thanks Dave I will probe your suggestions.

I never thought it might not fit the case I have? will need to see.

I went for the one without the F with VGA, HDMI and DVI. It’s this that you suggested WiFi

I am getting confused

I will be honest I thought it saying VGA means onboard, I will have to see

Biggest problem I ordered some ram (as you suggested) to find they have none now I got to wait for a refund before I can look else where.

Here’s hoping

 

Cheers
John

[Dave Rice]

Sorry John, I hadn’t realized you’d started ordering and I have confused everything.

If you intend to replace the HP with the new PC, I’d live without a graphics card for a while. If you really absolutely need one, I’m sure I have something here that will tide you over while you’re waiting, just return it to me when you’re done.

The new one won’t need a graphics card, and yes that is the motherboard with Wi-Fi. It also has all the right sockets for the CPU graphics.

As for the ram, don’t worry too much about it, any 8GB of DDR4 at that sort of price will do the job. If you’re looking at CCL then anything on this page.

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