Building plans

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

 

I have just bought my first house, and I’m looking at how and where to make my mail on it.

Some may remember I was asking about the blown air heating systems bank in the old forum. Well this is the place that has it.

 

I’ll be getting a couple of quotes tomorrow to see what sort of price range it would be to replace the system with a combi boiler and radiators. The heating system is fine, but the how water is an immersion tank which requires more fuss (it’s entirely convenience I agree, though it is less efficient too!)

 

Whilst looking at this, I’m trying to work out what walls are structural and which could be removed. If the heat system was to change, the ducting can be cut away to gain some space and the cupboard it currently sits in could possibly disappear, though I’m not sure if it’s a supporting wall or not.

So that is the question. Is it possible to get a copy of the blueprints to the house, to know what is solid wall and what is decorative?

 

It was built by Barratts bank in the 60s I believe.

[RSB]

Maybe easier to get a bricky in and let them tell you. Few pints for them would cover the cost.

Americans: Over Sexed, Over Payed and Over here, Wat Wat!

[The Duke]

What he said, if you dont know, get some one that does. Your local will be full of them. They wally work Sundays for cheap the good one.

Its a simple job to move radiators so if you don’t get it right first time they can be moved. In 12 I think only the rad in my kitchen hasn’t move. And thst is only cos we but the heating in when we done the kitchen, which in tiled me bulling down a load bearing wall. Which even though I’d done before many times previous, this was the first I’d done on my own lol.

It was actually 9 years ago, and as we was fitting heating and doing the kitchen before the baby arrived, and she come 6 weeks early right in the middle of it. The kids was already staying Nan’s for a couple of weeks, while we done it, and then mum and new baby also ended up their.

[JayCeeDee]

Being as it’s a Barratt home, you’re likely either in an estate of similar houses, or a small bunch of houses together, as this is what they mostly did. Your local planning department will be a good place for a recce online. Someone in a similar house will have had the same idea and you might be able to check out some plans.

Homes under the Hammer might also be a good place for some ideas. Bigger kitchens, kitchen-diners and the like are all popular at the moment.

Don’t forget to get references – and follow them up – speak to people that have had the work done by the builder, and go round to see it as well, don’t feel you’re being cheeky or nosey.

Spend more on the boiler and get a good make if you can, many of them have 7 year warranties now I think. We bought a cheaper one ( Main ) 8 years ago and it’s given us grief for the last 4 – we’ve spent more getting it repaired each year than it will cost us in total to get it replaced!! We’re are now looking to get it replaced soon, and we’ll probably go for a Worcester-Bosch this time.

[Drezha]

You’ll need the structural plans, not the standard building plans. I work with plans daily (well, did before I switched to this job and will be when I move to my new job) and in general, they don’t show the structural walls (just all of them).

If it’s from the 60’s, I gather it’s unlikely to have the plans. Current regs state that building plans and data have to be given to the new occupier once complete, but even now that isn’t followed 100%. From the 60’s, you’re unlikely to have a full set lying around!

"Everything looks interesting until you do it. Then you find it’s just another job" - Terry Pratchett

[Ed P]

You may want to consider adding an Air Source Heat Pump. This makes a natural addition to a house already set-up with all the ducting. It will not ‘replace’ your existing (or any new) heating system, but it will supplement and reduce your bills. It also adds value to your house in adding a point or two to its energy rating.

This obviously works best if you have a south facing wall that gets warmed by the sun.

[The Duke]

All you need to do is check there isn’t a (solid)  wall above the one your pulling down, if there isn’t your gold you stick in a wooden lintel, laminate a outlet of 6x4s.

If however there is a brick wall, you’ll need to install an ibeam, or pull the upstarts solid wall down,  and put a studed wall back in its place. Which is a actually  better for sound installation and heat. If you installed it with foam.

Also if there is no wall above, pull the floor boards upstairs and check that floor jousts are not stating and tripping (resting on), and if so you’ll need an i beam. Tho they are really cheap at the mo.

Any decent diy builder can tell you in 5 mins what walls you can touch and how. Acro supports can be rented from your local tool hire for about £8 a week, you’ll normally need 4 and two planks to strap the weight evenly each side of the wall your removing.

It’s a very simple prosess.

[Richard]

I have several blockwork bedroom walls that are stood on a wooden beams, with no obvious load taker below. In fact it is the chimney breast that carries one end of the beam. You do have to be careful assessing what is load bearing, as far as I know you also need your plans assessed by building control if there is any load bearing wall involved – no good builder would ‘just knock it down and hope’. I am not at all sure that plans should be developed without guidance from a qualified structure engineer – surveyor. They carry, or should carry enough liability insurance to allow restoration should your plans not work out when the structure is revised, i.e. should something fall down. A number of chimneys were removed in the past without considering the consequences which can be significant. Also on some properties the bedroom bay windows and floors were supported by the wood framed windows. once they were replaced by plastic windows the bays started to detach from the house with ‘undesirable results’.

What has been said is OK as far as making an assessment of likely risks is concerned but before developing detailed plans professional advice would be wise. Over all costs will be lower if all actions are correctly planned first and performed as a secondary step. I know some modern houses have quite unusual structural arrangements, some small scale products appear to use only the outside walls for support while they are being constructed but it would be rash to assume that the completed product was built that way. (I have a couple of small house built near to me in mind when I made that comment.)

You might also need to involve the mortgage company if there is a material change to the fabric of the building as it could affect the building’s value.

[Richard]

One thing I forgot to mention is that if the property is a terrace or a semi detached building then you need to be aware of the requirements of the party wall act. I do not know the act in details but get it wrong and you can expect pain and suffering.

[The Duke]

Probably “do not bring down the party wall”  ?

[Richard]

The Duke wrote:

Probably “do not bring down the party wall” ?

That is a good starting point, but from what I have heard from others who have been suspected of falling foul, it can get a bit more complicated than that. Such follow ons are best avoided where humanly possible, it tends to be cheaper that way.

[Bob Williams]

The NCB and later British Coal gradually sold off all the old pit housing to a Housing Association on the NCB estate where I was brought up. On the Lane where I grew up, a young unemployed lad moved into one with his 17 yo GF and new baby. His landlord was the Association and they did not take kindly to him taking out the chimney breast. Those houses were built in 1926 to ’27 and had a fireplace in every room except the smallest of 3 bedrooms. The chimneys were all load-bearing…

Fortunately, they were out shopping when the whole ceiling and most of the first floor decided to become the ground floor, followed by some of the roof.

Thanks to the DSS, they were rehoused in another house on the same street, but left for another Association house in another village, after a couple of months when neighbours made it plain that they were not wanted. It must have cost quite a bit to rebuild, probably via Insurance and probably many times more than the building cost in 1926. That estate still stands, the houses all privately owned now. The first job most new owners carried out, was to pump in concrete under the floors: they sat on perimeter foundations, over packed earth. After living here in Lincs. for 17 years, when I rarely go back it all looks like rows of boxes.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Anonymous]

Thanks all.

None of the walls I am looking at are a party-wall, unless the British Gas guy that comes to give me a quote suggests radiators going on those walls.

If the rough-idea I had comes to fruition, the new boiler would go in an upstairs cupboard, replacing the hot water tank. This means that all hot water can easily be plumbed in. The radiators upstairs can be routed under the floorboards. Those downstairs can all branch off from piping placed under the stairs.

It’s a pity I won’t seemingly be able to get plans from the builders or anyone. I guess some careful lifting of floor-boards to see if there’s anything obvious is in order. There seems to be a mystery gap under the stairs which isn’t accounted for at the moment, but possibly all the ducting for the current heating vents and it’s ducting. Which could free some space up there.

[Tippon]

Anonymous wrote:

If the rough-idea I had comes to fruition, the new boiler would go in an upstairs cupboard, replacing the hot water tank. This means that all hot water can easily be plumbed in.

It’s been a while since I last checked, but I don’t think that boilers can go in bedrooms anymore. Either way, you might be better off putting it in the attic if you can, so that it’s out of the way.

[The Duke]

Attic or kitchen, and my boiler sits inside a standard wall cupboard. So it’s almost invisible and easily assessable. Right next to the back door was more to drain and serves the system.

I cut the top and bottom out of the carcas, I used a standard wall 800mm jobbie, as that’s what fit the gap between the wall and chimney, i used 2 400 doors, but when you open them the boiler takes up about a third, so I put a “centre” side in 2/3 along, (so not centre) and shelved out the remains 1/3. It worked a treat. So if you do end up going the  kitchen route , try getting a narrower boiler that will fit within a wall cupboard. Though we have 10 double wall units so using half of one up wasn’t an issue, if you kitchen is Small the kitchen may not be the best place.

I know that they have to be on an external wall (obviously) and now they also need to run to an exterior drain. You used to just be able to let the overflow/valve thingy (don’t think that’s the technical term) drain into the ground. But not no more.

[JayCeeDee]

I’ve got a friend who rents and their boiler was in the loft. It was a real PITA when it needed the pressure topping up, or, more often in their case, the gas meter ran out and needed to re-ignite it.

When ours was fitted in ’09, if an outside wall wasn’t an option, you could also vent it through the ceiling and pipe it out through the roof using special tubing and a “tile” like a tumble dryer vent.

[Richard]

Several good new points have arisen above. New ‘condensing’ boilers do need a direct access to a ‘suitable’ drain and you need to be careful about the suitable bit. The condensate from the boiler can be very corrosive and will attack a number of substances. I am not aware of the current thinking but PVC is I believe OK, many metals were not considered suitable in the recent past.

The condensate pipe has to be of suitable size and ideally routed with enough fall to ensure rapid drainage, of big enough section and not be likely to freeze in cold weather. If you have a preferred maker you can go to them and look at the installation guide. You cannot do the work yourself unless you are gas safe registered but they used to, a year or so back tell you what they considered acceptable for their kit. Long vertical flues were not acceptable for some makers as the wet portion of the exhaust may condense on its way out and drain back into the boiler. This was not apparently the case with the older types of boiler which ran hotter flue gases. In any case, following a number of high profile carbon monoxide poisonings long internal flues are very strictly ruled items, generally strict rules equals costly installs.

If you want to box in a boiler then the maker’s specifications will tell you all about the clearances needed and the materials that can be used. Sometimes specific clearance is needed for servicing the device.

Installs are now regulated by building regulations and the fitter must be able to self certify the installation and MUST provide a certificate of compliance. This might appear a pain but to be honest it is for the good of the house occupier. You would not be able to sell the house without the correct paperwork. It is usual for a qualified Gas Safe installer to fully understand these rules and should be able to explain anything that you are uncertain about.

Worcester Bosch do have their gold star installers and usually work out about half the cost of Brutish Gas and can give you a usefully extended guarantee, other installers are listed but usually only give lower levels of warranty.

Always get several quotes before you agree anything and ask for a full explanation of all items.

[Author]

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