Brexit now = CETA +/-?

[Ed P]

Whatever turns you on.

Personally I still see no value in moving from a ‘Rule Maker’ to a ‘Rule Taker’ so I’ll pass on your unique opportunity and join the Labour Party instead  At least that comes with the option of voting for a moderate leader.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Oh come on Ed, moderate leader of the current Labour party ?

You may think that Boris is only slightly less right wing than gengis kahn but look at what labour are proposing.

JC was not wrong and what we REALLY need is more Marxism.

Sorry but NO.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Now that Brexit will be enacted tonight, how about a new thread that just lets us rave about anything else ?

I am quite happy to debate on left wing or right wing so why not ?

[keith with the teef]

That looney scotish woman has got on her nutter pedastal again and is mouthing off.

I think we need to get DT to rebuild hadrians wall. Tall enough so we cannot hear her as in DT size… 😉

[Ed P]

Keir Starmer is moderate enough for me. He is middle of the road New Labour but without the CIA taint.

[The Duke]

I don’t think this should be closed. It’s now that it’s all going to get interesting. It’s not going to be December until we see the fall out.

Also as the heated nature has subsided, like all other threads, it shouldn’t be closed. It will come to an nateral end eventually. If we close this one, there is no doubt another will be opened at some point. So it should be left alone.

[The Duke]

As Churchill said, this is not the end, but is the beginning of the end.

[Richard]

As the old Fleet Street saying went, this one still has legs, even if some participants are flogging dead horses. As for Keir Starmer, as someone tied to the coat tails of reactionary forces like momentum is never going to be middle of the road.

[Bob Williams]

keith with the teef wrote:

That looney scotish woman has got on her nutter pedastal again and is mouthing off. I think we need to get DT to rebuild hadrians wall. Tall enough so we cannot hear her as in DT size… 😉

Keith as someone with a good few Scots relatives and even more Scots friends, I have to point out that you are ignoring what Nicola Sturgeon does, and has done, for her people and her country.

She has given them pride in themselves and what they are. She fights her corner ferociously on behalf of her country. Doesn’t matter what we think of her down here, it only matters what the majority of Scots think of her and what they decide to do about Independence. The future of Scotland is a matter for the people of Scotland only.

Can anyone point to an English politician with that resolve, that belief that what they are doing? Right or wrong, do not make the mistake of calling her “loony”. She is of very sound mind and possesses a fierce intelligence.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[JayCeeDee]

Wheels-Of-Fire wrote:

I thought my to good to miss thread would get some of that sort of reply. Apparently not 😁

 

Would anyone like to win a copy of the European Communities (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020, personally signed by Boris Johnson ?

All you have to do is contribute £5, £10 or £20 to the conservative party and you will be entered into a draw that could see you as the proud new owner of the document 😀

And no I am not making it up, the details are in the latest Conservative party mail shot.

Raffles don’t normally provoke political statements!!😀

[keith with the teef]

Every Scott I know cannot satnd the seight of fish face.

[blacklion1725]

Bob Williams wrote:

keith with the teef wrote:

That looney scotish woman has got on her nutter pedastal again and is mouthing off. I think we need to get DT to rebuild hadrians wall. Tall enough so we cannot hear her as in DT size… 😉

Keith as someone with a good few Scots relatives and even more Scots friends, I have to point out that you are ignoring what Nicola Sturgeon does, and has done, for her people and her country. She has given them pride in themselves and what they are. She fights her corner ferociously on behalf of her country. Doesn’t matter what we think of her down here, it only matters what the majority of Scots think of her and what they decide to do about Independence. The future of Scotland is a matter for the people of Scotland only. Can anyone point to an English politician with that resolve, that belief that what they are doing? Right or wrong, do not make the mistake of calling her “loony”. She is of very sound mind and possesses a fierce intelligence.

Bob – not a level playing field. Anyone English spouting the sort of nationalistic rhetoric she does would not get the time of day – they would be instantly classed as a racist xenophobe. She turns my stomach to be honest – I find her to be a very bitter woman with (in my opinion) some personal issues that she seeks to ease through her continual venting.

The Scots have a far better deal than the English from the UK. Aside from their kids (lack of) tuition fees, they are ridiculously over-represented at Westminster (in terms of MPs per voter), they have their own National Parliament as well (the English don’t) and more inward investment/spending per-head than England.

Despite all that, and despite a recent referendum voting to stay in the UK she is still piping up. I doubt the Scots would be daft enough to vote to leave the UK given the preferential treatment they currently get – and if they did I presume they would have to apply to join the EU independently.

By the way if the people of Scotland are solely responsible for their future in the Union – should that no extend to England, Wales and Northern Ireland – why – using that logic – are the English bound to the Scots until they – and they only  – decide they have had enough – why don’t they English get an equal say?

As much as I think you are a great bloke Bob I could not disagree with you more. In my opinion she is a vile woman.

[Bob Williams]

I am relaying the opinions and words of Scots relatives and friends. Some think she is a very good First Minister who works for the good of country and people.  Some do not have a very high opinion of her and some are of the opinion shared by two of my old Glaswegian mates: that she is ” A right wee rocket” – meaning a small person not quite right in the head. The problem with Scotland and Scots, is that they are wont to believe that they are one people when it comes to their sporting teams (especially football) and any contests against the English. In reality they are even more tribal than the English, and that is really saying something. They are an even bigger mix than the English, with so many different tribes and clans having a part in the making of what became Scotland. I have been up there many times and the differences fascinate me. My great nephew and his kids live up above Aberdeen and their speech is totally different to the Aberdeen city dwellers. I have friends over the years from Glasgow, the Highlands, the Western isles, Perth, Inverkeithing (near Edinburgh) and Dundee. All of them have distinct accents and some are just a few miles from another. Most can seem to hold an opinion only long enough to be persuaded it’s wrong, or long enough to cause an argument over it. The worst reaction I ever got from an argument was in an Edinburgh bar with my Inverkeithing mate. I said that the Scottish name came from Ireland. Cue uproar, until I explained with some difficulty, that referred to a tribe called the Scotti, who travelled across the Irish sea and invaded, then made themselves at home. When I also said that many Scots were descended from Angles, my mate took me away from the reactions! Well. I had been on the hard stuff…

But I stick by what I said. The Scots should be allowed to decide their own destiny, with one final referendum. I cannot really tell what that decision will be and I suspect not many of the Scots I know, know yet which way they will vote. I should have corrected my words about madame Sturgeon by saying that she is not someone whose personality appeals to me. Can’t stand her in fact, but I do believe that she believes in Scotland and does what she believes is best for it. Her problem is Boris, a British politician who believes in the UK and who has the power to refuse her that vote. And uses it. There are many possible results to another referendum:

1- Scotland becomes independent and leaves the UK. In which case all the Scots MP’s leave Westminster. They lose our sovereign as Head of State and become a Republic. They lose the GBPound and they are barred from joining the EU. The border becomes hard and their economy crashes. Scots flood England and Wales as illegal immigrants. A second Diaspora of Scots emigrates West to Canada.

2 – Scotland votes to remain in the UK and this a huge blow to the SNP. Sturgeon resigns. At this point the UK PM might call a GE.

What is forgotten though, is that Alex Salmond was First Minister at the last referendum and he gave the promise that it would be Final.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[JayCeeDee]

The whole Scottish situation has got to the point now, that as soon as one of them comes onto the TV, I reach for the remote to Fast Forward. The record has got stuck in the groove, whingeing has become the norm and they are determined that we will pay the price for them not getting their way.

Whichever of the candidates for Leader of the Labour Party espouses joining up the Opposition parties ( SNP, LibDems and possibly the Greens ) into a United Front, will lose my vote for definite, and those of many others too. They would be off with the fairies if they think that they could either control or co-erce the SNP into a collaborative regime for their united ends.

There are the occasional Scottish voice that speaks sense, one was either on Politics Live recently, or Question Time, I can’t recall which. I yearn for more of them.

Wheels-Of-Fire wrote:

JC was not wrong and what we REALLY need is more Marxism.

You HAVE to be joking, Graham!! Momentum scare the crap out of me and are the reason JC became un-electable, not taking into account his blatant anti-nationalism ( to be clear, that’s his anti-UK stance and pro anybody ( Gadaafi, IRA, HAMAS etc, etc) that has p*ssed off the majority of sensible UK citizens. How anybody who took pride in being a rebel, never voting with his party line, and then being proud to be leader of a mainstream political party, could ever think that was anything other than cant hypocrisy, beggars belief.

Blaming Brexit for their defeat in the 2019 GE is to ignore the real reasons and avert eyes from a necessary stringent, effective, inward look.

He is why I have felt dis-enfranchised for these last three years and ended up voting Tory ( admittedly in a safe Tory seat, so that salved my conscience a little, or at least took the bad taste out of my mouth ).

The Rebecca Long-Baileys of this world that give JC 10 out of 10 on his report card are deluding themselves. They say we have to look forward for a solution, not back, referring to commentators that say they should look in Blair’s direction for the salve to our ( Labour ) current woes.

We need a Centrist Labour Party that either falls back on, or at the very least comes from, traditional Labour values.
I have high hopes for Lisa Nandy, who worked supremely hard across party lines ( while JC and his ilk were playing games and quoting their 6 criteria ) to try and get some sanity re-instated during the end of TM’s reign and the start of Boris’s. However, even she raises my doubts when she openly talks of open borders/free movement and includes giving extended members of the families of migrants the same rights – it’s the extended members part that worries me most.

[Ed P]

Well Boris has finally kept part of one of his promises and the Withdrawal Agreement has been enacted. However he now faces a future where all his promises (and lies) will be fully exposed and he has nowhere to hide and no one else to blame.

It will be interesting to see how Mendacious Boris balances the free trade needs of the industrialised North with its remnants of a car industry, against Cornish and Scots fish stocks and which groups get shafted in the negotiations.

Brexit is not over by a long way.

[Dave Rice]

I’ve always thought it’s the fish that will go. “Fishing” is nowhere near as easy as people think it is, there is no such thing as a single British fishing industry. We export a lot of what we catch because we don’t eat it and vice versa. Shellfish to the EU (mostly France and Spain) counts for 25% of all fish exports (and 80% of the shellfish) , they’re caught by small scale outfits here in the West Country and Scotland. What do they do if that market is compromised? You can’t just change species like that, it’s like telling a carpenter they’ll be brickies from now on, it’s all the building trade isn’t it?

Plus the public don’t give a flying fig about fishing, mostly they have no idea where anything in the supermarket actually comes from, they just want what they want to be there and to be cheap. They can understand the concept of a massive factory shutting though and so can the media.

[Bob Williams]

When ah were a lad, me and me dad would hire a boat and skipper from Scarborough. I caught my first monster cod from that boat as an 8yo. The seas then were of course not subject to any rules (EU or UK) regarding quotas, there were no ‘factory farm’ boats and the sea was full of fish. We caught so much fish, of so many varieties and during the whole fortnight’s holidays, we lived on seafood. That’s why I love it today. I would take a ledger line to the Pier and bring up crabs from around the Pier legs, chuck them in a bucket and chop them up later for tomorrow’s sea fishing bait. My best memory at a young age then, was fighting a catch for over 30 minutes. It nearly pulled my arms out of the sockets: turned out to be a conger eel, an evil-looking thing. The skipper clubbed its brains out on the side of the boat. I gave him that catch, as we did with many of the fish, and he sold them. That was the price of the trip, but dad always gave him “Summat fo’ thee diesel.”

I was told some years ago that there is still good fishing for the inshore guys there. Of course, the time I am talking about was the 50’s and early 60’s and the boats were small. I can support Dave’s words, fishing is not easy at all. I meet quite a few boat owners around this area and they are of one mind in saying that post-Brexit fishing is not going to be as easy as everyone seems to believe. There are a lot of the strident voices on FB and elsewhere with probably no experience of it and live usually well inland. So when you see media talk about “Our fishing industry”, take it with a pinch of salt. It’s a food producer, but with added danger and often slack times when no money is made because the catch is low or non existent.

But if you want to beach fish, that’s a different matter and that is good fishing along most of the Lincolnshire coast. Sutton on Sea is particularly good: I know one local restaurant owner who has a guy fishing incoming tides there with good results, especially with a strong breeze. It help that the beach is also full of lugworm and razor worm casts. Dig down for your bait.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[RSB]

@bullstuff2

Bob Williams wrote:

When ah were a lad, me and me dad would hire a boat and skipper from Scarborough. I caught my first monster cod from that boat as an 8yo.

I whent out from filey on a cobble  at about 12yo which is only 12 miles away from scarborough where I spent a few years not so long ag, I lasted about 2 hours and when I got back I was ill and green for atleast 3 days. Never again.

Americans: Over Sexed, Over Payed and Over here, Wat Wat!

[Ed P]

Mate of mine lost his forefinger to a congar. We were line fishing in the estuary and caught a huge congar. He started out ok by chopping off its head with a machete, but then the idiot immediately tried to retrieve his hook – bye bye finger. Still it got him out of the National Service call-up so he reckoned it wasn’t that bad a deal.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Yes JayCee, I was not only joking I was taking the p**s 😁.

Labour really ARE going to elect a JC clone, can’t see any way round it.

Even if a moderate got the block votes of all the Unions (Not going to happen) it wouldn’t be enough to outnumber all their new Marxist members.

[Author]

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