Brexit now = CETA +/-?

[dwynnehugh]

WoF – based on previous histories and past performance I too am totally surprised that this has not leaked into other threads as is so often the case.

The more you meet people the more you understand why Noah took animals instead of humans

[The VFM Addict]

WoF has made his point then.    If this thread did not exist it would obviously surface elsewhere having no place to go.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Bob Williams]

Not up to any one of us to decide the death of this or any other thread. However, I join Dwynne in wishing it was dead. Dave, you are allowing yourself being baited by others, which is one method (perhaps the most effective) by which it survives. Those others may be getting some weird satisfaction from it, don’t let them.

To that end, why don’t those of us who wish to do so, leave it to the circular arguments of those who seem to need it?

I will leave now and not return. Anyone wishing to insinuate Brexit into another Thread, should expect a good flaming. Keep this thread for Brexit, leave it be and those who want an argument can argue with each other.

Bugga Brexit, I’m off.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The VFM Addict]

Well done, Bob, that was exactly the point I was making to dwynnehugh.   No-one forces anyone to take part in any particular thread.   People read or engage with threads solely of their own choice.

I’m genuinely sorry to learn your input will now be absent from this debate because I valued it.  You never descended into vitriolic rants that some individuals post do and hence I always took your reasoned points on board even if I did not always agree with them.   However, I defend wholeheartedly your right to abstain from this topic if you so desire.

(Oh silly me, you won’t see this post will you because you’re not visiting this thread again.)

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

@Ed

Not sure if you are still reading this thread.  However, if you are and always having found you to be an individual of integrity I presume that you will concede that your firm prediction of 4 May that the EU Elections would never take place proved in the event to be wrong.

The mood of Remainers in general at present seems to be far more rabid than Leavers.   I do not include you, Ed, as while you have made you own points forcefully I have seen no personal attacks from you or your endorsement of personal attacks by others.   I note that even, Bob, a normally impeccably balanced individual in my opinion, has now taken to slagging off 70% off the folks in his own locale.   It appears not to have occurred to him that the majority may actually be right.   Despite what the establishment and particularly the BBC have been professing more and more economists are now swapping sides and suggesting that Brexit may financially benefit the UK while the other major economies of the EU are heading rapidly for recession.   Germany’s projected growth was again downgraded for the third time yesterday.

It is weird or at least I find it to be so that while Leavers point to facts and factual trends Remainers seem to descend increasingly into vitriolic rants whenever such facts and realities are even tendered for debate by Leavers.    Roll on 23 May; 6 June and the next GE that’s what I say; although I do fear that such may only lead to even greater vitriolic rants from many Remainers.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

I suspect that many Remainers will throw a true wobbly at this FT article because it conflicts with that which they hold and it seems desire to be true.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Ed P]

The FT article is pay-walled for me.

I accept that I was wrong in not expecting an EU election. May has failed to make ANY meaningful compromises and then shat on her negotiations by not honouring their confidentiality agreements. I’m afraid she has just showed that she is untrustworthy.

I do read what people say, but do not always comment unless I see something that seems to contradict either facts or their interpretations. (There are very few ‘facts’ of what the nation currently thinks, but the Green party seem overly buoyed up by the UN report on disappearing species – maybe they could deliver some real shocks of their own).

[The VFM Addict]

The title and text of the FT article reads:

Wealthy UK investors optimistic on Brexit impact, survey shows

UBS poll indicates higher proportion think UK exit will have a positive economic effect.

Wealthy investors in the UK have expressed optimism about the impact of Brexit on the country’s economy, setting aside concerns about uncertainty to predict an economic upside to the UK’s departure. Forty-one per cent of high net worth investors in the UK believe Brexit will have a positive impact, according to a survey by UBS Global Wealth Management, compared with 35 per cent who think it will be negative.

This positive outlook was mirrored among business owners, 44 per cent of whom said Brexit would have a positive effect on their business. A further 28 per cent predicted no impact at all.

“Between multiple meaningful votes in Parliament and pivotal European Council summits, it has been a challenging quarter for our clients, who are looking to minimise the impact of domestic political and market factors on their investments and businesses,” said Mark Goddard at UBS Global Wealth Management. “Despite this, this survey shows that UK investors and business owners have a much more positive mindset than towards the end of 2018. Investors have managed to set aside concerns over prolonged uncertainty when assessing their financial objectives and economic outlook.” The question on Brexit optimism had not been posed by UBS previously, so an exact change in sentiment cannot be measured. However, the number of investors who identified the domestic political environment as their biggest worry fell from 55 per cent in the last quarter of 2018 to 43 per cent in the first quarter of 2019, indicating increasing positivity.

The survey canvassed the views of 3,653 investors and business owners with at least $1m in investable assets or at least $250,000 in annual revenues, respectively.

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Just a tip, Ed, if you note the title of an FT link even when it is firewalled; then clear your cache, Google the title and click on the Google link you will get in for that article one time.   Its a trick worth knowing.   Obviously the FT are using this one time, one article Google entry as a way to bait folks to then subscribe.    Once you know that you can use the one time entry trick over and over to get to any particular FT article that catches your fancy.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The Duke]

The thread has to say open so this rubbish doesn’t seep onto the rest of the forum.

As long as it doent fe to person it will live.

Though I don’t know why it needs to become personal. It’s not like it actually matters what we think. What will happen will happen.

[The VFM Addict]

That is so true, Duke.  Its a fact of life that we mortals often debate matters where no matter what we think and conclude it will change very little.    But that doesn’t make those debates pointless.   Because exercising the mind is never a waste of time and often such debates spark other ideas as side issues and which are of practical use.

I also don’t think the debates here are circular.   Events are changing evolving and moving all the time so neither the dynamics nor the arguments are ever static.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

This twitter post by Leo V. was good to see.    We can sort things out with Eire if the EU wouldn’t stick its oar in.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The Duke]

I agree to the point of  exercising the mind. But this thread  isn’t a good example of one. Its a circular debate that just keeps covering the same ground over and over. And it’s its if buts and maybes, followed by speculation and guesswork.

[The VFM Addict]

Can’t agree there, Duke.   Things are changing all the time.  Not so long ago we had no Change UK; no Brexit Party; no massacre of Tory councilors; no likelihood of MEP elections; no 1922 Committee gearing up for a rules change or suspension of the rules after the 23 May Elections; no Conservative Grassroots special convention to vote no confidence in May; no George O., who hates May’s guts urging, as he did yesterday, the cabinet to rise up an oust her; no Peterborough by-election date scheduled and no local boy made good hero standing there for the Brexit Party on 6 June.

Truly not sure folks around here really get what is happening.    A proper full Brexit would have ended the growth of populism in the UK.   Folks don’t fight for control if they feel certain they already have it.   But Soubry, Letwin, Cooper, Grieve, etc., in attempting to thwart Brexit have done nothing more than put a tiger in the tank of populism.    Certainly the political team at Sky News can see what’s happening even if the BBC simply ignore it and hope it will go away.    Just read this in full.

So nothing to talk about?   Its all circular?   No, I don’t think so.   Everything is changing.   There’s one hell of a lot to debate.   Probably far, far more now than when this thread started.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The Duke]

Thingsay be changing, but the views are intrenched. It’s boring now, I don’t care if we go or stay, I jut want it over. Its making the nation look like fools.

The one thing we won’t get is a clean ending. We will end up with the worst of both worlds. Out of the EU, but still following their tune.

It will be reflected on in a decade as a waist of time.

[The VFM Addict]

If you think that what has happened so far makes us look like fools wait until the new behind the scenes documentary from BBC4 airs.    It seems the guy May chose to negotiate a good deal for the UK, yes, “Olly ‘Philby’ Robbins” asked Verhofstadt if he could become a Belgium citizen once the deal was done.    Of course that wonderful Verhofstadt couldn’t wait to dump on Robbin by letting it out in this documentary.   In the same programme EU staffers reveal that the EU’s plan from the start for the WA was to use it to make us a colony of the EU.

Robbins allegiance to this country is about as genuine as was that of Burgess, Blunt and Maclean.     Quite clearly Robbins would want the best deal for the country he intended to live in rather than the UK…………..that says it all really.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The Duke]

All a load of s-+t tbh. I really don’t care anymore.

[The VFM Addict]

Your prerogative, Duke.   I can’t say I blame you.    I get the same way when folks talk about things which I think are insignificant.     I guess we all have different views about what’s important.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Les.]

I think my suggestion last week was possibly my first to this thread, but I for one am enjoying it. For the record, if I had had a vote it would have been to LEAVE, sorry Bob (who is not looking now) et al. Anyway, can I suggest you go back to last week’s message and think carefully. I think it is the only hope remaining for a wounded Tory party, would hit Labour hard, and get quite a few Brexiters in parliament.

I repeat, TM to announce GE in July, all Tory candidate to state their brexit intentions. Then resign. Of course she could put both her deal, or “No deal” to the vote once more, but walk away from JC without delay.

OTHERWISE, they are ALL DOOMED!

Les.

[The VFM Addict]

The scuttlebutt is that more and more Tory MPs are concluding that the party is indeed fatally wounded unless it can disarm The Brexit Party (“TBP”) entirely and recapture not only Leaver voters in general but most importantly its own grassroots activists who are moving to TBP in very substantial numbers.   Some are saying that if the party desires to survive it must oust May and elect a Brexiteer who has the courage to embrace No Deal.    Nothing short of that has any prospect of dragging deserting Tory Party members, who favour No Deal by a huge margin, back.

I can’t really see the Parliamentary Tory Party doing that.     So yes the Tories are DOOMED.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Ed P]

Farage and the Brexiteers coupled with ‘First past the Post’ could fatally injure every party that is right of centre. I hope it does as it could be just the catalyst required to bring in PR and a help to mend our broken version of democracy.

[Author]

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