Brexit now = CETA +/-?

[Bob Williams]

This is the essential truth: we were originally asked by *Major’s government to vote to join the EEC, not the EU. A Common Market, not a European Union. However, IMO the worst mistake our politicians made, was wrecking the democratic process. The British people have been misled, conned, deceived and overruled by successive British governments and by the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

Once asked to vote, we should have given a resounding NO! But once in, we should not, IMO, have voted to Leave.

*Even in his advancing years, he will still not admit he was wrong.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Dave Rice]

Banksy is back in Bristol Museum. Devolved Government.

[Bob Williams]

EEEEEEVOLVED, Dave. Those primates are more intelligent than the usual crowd!

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Bob Williams]

Never, ever, thought I would agree with this hyphenated upper class pillock:

http://tinyurl.com/yyr8dsgk

Watch the AfD video, this woman is correct:

https://www.facebook.com/ABroadImage/videos/597526424097479/?t=5

And she represents the main Opposition within the Bundestag. Her political base is strong and growing. Knowing the Germans, I would hazard a guess that they will hold the reins over there soon. Naturally, many left wing German and EU voices are insisting upon equating the AfD with the Nazis of 1933 to 1945. That is garbage and most German people see through it. Already I have had ‘advice’ from a supposedly Christian English lady, long married to a German. I was at school with the lady, who advises me not to listen to Afd: “They are not good.” I told her that in Britain and in Germany, free speech should mean that I can listen to whomever I like.

I really wish that the German people would allow themselves to stop feeling guilty and apologising for WWII. At least 3 generations now have been born since 1945: “lass es dabei bewenden!”  –  “Let it go at that!”

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The VFM Addict]

You are so right, Bob.   Across the EU anti-EU sentiment is quite rationally growing very rapidly led by the young (except in the UK).    The anti-EU Irish Freedom Party has just splashed with several billboard ads; the three shown here are powerful.   The Irexit momentum is growing.    What plonkers we will look  as others move towards the exit door but we, who are stronger economically than they are, remain far too frightened to go through it.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

@BBCNewsnight

“We’ve got the worst prime minister since Anthony Eden.”    “We’ve got the worst leader of the opposition in the entire history of the Labour Party.”   “And we’ve got the worst Parliament since Oliver Cromwell”

Go, Annie, go !!!

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[dwynnehugh]

And to cap it all Guy Fawkes really did have the right idea!!

The more you meet people the more you understand why Noah took animals instead of humans

[Dave Rice]

There will be a queue to light the fuse.

We’ve got years of this ahead, either dealing with the fall out of No Deal, an extended WA or actually getting on with the next phase. And a Tory Party leadership contest stitch up before, after or in-between.

God knows what will happen at the next GE, whenever that is, as Left and Right just don’t fit with Leave or Remain (and variations thereof). Even the manifestos are going to rip the respective parties apart even more. Not so long ago I would have said Labour was about to split, now I think the Tories are more likely to. I wish they’d both do it.

Hmm, pass the matches ?

[The VFM Addict]

2016 changed all political division lines in the UK; which in the end has exposed the fragility of the two party structure that results in even a monkey being able to get into Parliament provided he wears and swears allegiance to the right coloured rosette.

But look closer and we see as is clear now that MP’s even lie when they swear allegiance to their own parties.    Come the next GE, despite what party manifestos say, they truly won’t be worth the paper they are written on.   Because it will be every man for himself based in his/her patch’s Brexit majority.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Bob Williams]

I believe that this Forum is a good reflection of sensible, reasonable, intelligent people across the nation. That being correct, I further believe that the vast majority of the British people now see the real enemy as their own politicians, and not just the EU. They are incompetent, divided, self-justifying, ambitious  and power-hungry. Maybe this is what we need to unite Leavers and Remainers?

This might be his opinion of them:

 

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The VFM Addict]

Yep the only difference between our politicians and the big wigs in the EU is that we can punish them at the next election and kick them out.    I think its all too easy to forget that the likes of Juncker, Tusk and Verhofstadt were all Prime Ministers kicked out by their own native electorates.   On that principle May could get kicked out and still become a President of the EU.     Arrrrgggghhhhh…………………..?

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Dave Rice]

Neil Hamilton was kicked out, but he’s back in politics. IIRC he wasn’t directly voted in either.

Everything in our system is in theory, in practice it’s quite different. Not that many MPs are actually in jeopardy and if they get the two fingers in one place they’ll pop back up in another soon enough. It feels they are more likely to be de-selected by their own party machinery than their electorate.

When Bradley Stoke was new and we had our first Town Council all those elected were a local Independent as everyone felt we needed local people to sort the many many issues with our new town. All the “party” candidates live elsewhere. Sadly that hasn’t lasted and the party machines have taken over.

[Ed P]

The UK’s equivalent of Juncker et al all sit in Whitehall. For example our Politicians were unable to sack the hapless Oliver Robbins, second permanent secretary at the Home Office, even after a Keith Vaz on the Select Committee threw him out of the room!

[The VFM Addict]

I don’t disagree with what either of you just said, Ed and Dave, but it remains that if the whole UK wanted to remove the turds of Westminster we could but even if the whole of the UK wanted to remove the turds of the EU we could not.   To say we do not lose sovereignty by being in the EU is simply untrue.

Just saw this video which confirms the duplicity of Westminster.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Bob Williams]

We need a new political party, with a strong and determined leader, to speak for us all in this country. Sadly, it may take a revolution to bring about effective change. Change like that is never achieved without bloodshed and great disturbances. The whole political and economic structure of the UK, needs to be picked apart and reassembled. The hidden Establishment represented by the Civil Service mandarins, needs to be unseated from its power base.

I fear for the future of my country and I feel for our descendants who are going to have to live in a nation far removed from even its present economic and political influence in the world. I just wonder how far the British people will be pushed, before realistic change happens.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The VFM Addict]

I suspect not much further.  We are inherently a peaceful nation but one which rather than slowly become un-peaceful simply snaps at some point.   The poll tax riots were one such example.  The anger on social media and heard in the voices of callers to radio stations is already at a level I have not witnessed before.  It elevated quite palpably exponentially yesterday evening after May announced her intention to involve a man who she had repeatedly held to be close to the devil incarnate and explicitly as a threat to UK security.   Tory party members are cutting up their membership cards in high numbers and even posting pictures of them.

Frankly though, Bob, your fears for the UK mirror exactly my fears of where the EU is going.   I fear it will very soon become an institution that those states that wish to leave will literally have to fight there way out of.    Such civil wars are throughout history common where overly large federalisation occurs.   We should not ignore the lessons of history.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Ed P]

We have never had a true democracy, just a way of maintaining control in the hands of a few with a pablum to keep the masses happy. For that reason I really do not give a fig about illusory sovereignty. I trust the inertia of 27 countries far more than I do our often corrupt lot. In any case your comment about removing Commissioners is totally misleading.

“In addition to its role in approving a new Commission, the European Parliament has the power at any time to force the entire Commission to resign through a vote of no confidence. This requires a vote that makes up at least two-thirds of those voting and a majority of the total membership of the Parliament.”

Sure the UK alone could not do it, but it would be naive to think that one member of a club would ever have such power.

Although removing the Commission is obviously not easy, just try removing an inept Civil Servant or Grayling Clone who refuses to resign.

Btw Bob, Churchill is held in nowhere near the same reverence in South Wales. When I was young and in the 1950s the feeling was still that of him being a war-mongering, barsteward who sent the troops in to crush the miners in Tonypandy. He was certainly not a beloved figure-head in those days.

[The VFM Addict]

Rather naive , Ed?     Do you not think the Commission aware that a two-thirds majority was needed for their removal would apply pressure such that many smaller states would be too fearful of retribution in the event that the coup failed to ever take part in it.    Many supported the bomb attempt on Hitler’s life in WW2 but very few were confident enough to become involved.   Such is the way of the world.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Ed P]

How exactly are the Commission to apply pressure on member states? If anything it is the other way around and it was exactly that which caused the Santer Commission to resign in 1999.

[The VFM Addict]

I will respond re how pressure would be applied later but HOT off the press – Despite FTTP  a large poll of 2,200 voters in Doncaster predicts The Brexit Party will win seat as 28%.    There was also 18% who would vote UKIP.    That’s how strong feelings are pro-Brexit, 46% in total, Labour was at just 27%.    Labour had a 10,000 majority here in 2017.   WOW.    The Conservative vote is also decimated.

This poll suggests that the political landscape is totally changed already.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

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