Brexit now = CETA +/-?

[The VFM Addict]

I recall a few posts back folks were saying that the EU would support Eire.   Oh really.    There is talk in Brussels of Eire being kicked out of the Customs Union if it does not set up a hard border in the event of a No Deal Brexit.    Great to see the EU stands by its members.   Perhaps Leo V. had already heard whispers of such given his flip flopping between Eire having no intention to ever set-up a hard border and then talking about uniforms on it.

Belgian MEP Philippe Lamberts has been quoted as telling Die Spiegel that: “If Ireland refuses to protect the border with Northern Ireland after a hard Brexit, we would have to relocate the customs border to the continent.”

Meanwhile German MEP Elmar Brok, who is in Angela Merkel’s party, has talked up the same possible outcomes: “The defence of the internal market is the basis of our economic success in Germany.”   He says that if the Irish didn’t put up a hard border “we would have to set up the customs border with Ireland”.

So its – All for one and one for all, ’til the EU sents Eire, to the wall.   Heck how many BMW or VAG fakes made in China do they expect to be smuggled across the N.I. border if it isn’t hard?   You’ve just gotta love the EU haven’t you.    I think the Irexit lobby just got a massive boost.    Once the EU starts threatening Eire and saying trash the GFA or we’ll shaft you, a whole lot of Irish will begin to see the light.   We have never threatened a hard border.

No wonder also that today the DUP dug in really deep saying that the backstop must be removed totally, not just tinkered with.    My prediction switches today to a snap GE given that the Tories are increasingly ahead in the opinion polls and the DUP are starting to don full war paint.    What say you all?

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[Richard]

Wot Abat the fiasco that is increasingly erupting in a place called Italy? Will that one end well?

Apparently Corbyn thinks of the EU in glowing(?) terms, as a ‘European empire’, oh dear. Perhaps it really is popcorn and beer time

[The VFM Addict]

Yep.  Do you recall his views when Eire was forced to vote twice.

Take a look here.    That’s JC before he sold his beliefs in pursuit of power.

As regard Italy and, come to think of it the Poland- Hungry alliance and Brexit, the EU is surrounded and fighting on three fronts.

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[The Duke]

I literally zoned the brexit mess out now. Maybe in a couple of months my interest in it will return. It just gets boring going around in the same circles. Watching the government making fools of themselves doing very little.

For about 4 days now I’ve not read or war he’d anything about it, as it just gets me annoyed. Same happened about a year ago, I took about 4 months of disinterest, then returned back to see not a lot had changed.

[The VFM Addict]

Nah……   We’re getting to the bit where one side or the other comes running out like at the end of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and gets shot to pieces.  We’re just not sure which side it will be yet………..LOL

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[The Duke]

I just don’t think we are at that sarge of the lifm yet. I can see this being extended and the fun will keep on rolling.

I now feel as I did a year ago. I’m not that bothered what we do, I just want us to do something. At least then we Dan chart a course.

I don’t want leave, but I’ll take it over pergetory… As this is what we have atm.

[Ed P]

Allan do some research please – the EU worries about VAT fraud.  Export an article from Eire to Ulster reclaim the VAT, smuggle it back into Eire and rinse & repeat. It has nothing to do with BMWs as these have too many ID marks, something as simple as lorry-loads of detergent will do much better.

Roll on anything except this shambolic Government and kicking decisions into the long grass. May has a reputation to live up to — everything she touches turns to crap.

[The VFM Addict]

Yes, I’m aware of the Vat fraud but to some degree that’s the way it is now because we have different Vat rates anyway.   The BMW & VAG line was lighthearted.

I think shifting things down the road is about to end.   If she delays Brexit by extending Art.50 things will kick-off unless there a firm end point such as another Ref or a GE.    Labour are down in the polls, split on Brexit themselves to some degree, Starmer and Corbyn have internally different opinions re membership and ‘that video’ will sure as hell make a lot of younger voters lose trust in him.    I actually think the Tories could trounce Labour right now and, as much as I dread it, May could do what she wants re a deal with the DUP losing significance.    The only unknown though is if the currently severely disgruntled local Con Assoc’s will deselect Remain MPs big time.  I doubt they will.

For May the big plus is that she said she’d stand-down before “the 2022 election”.  Go for a snappie now and if she wins big she’s a hero with the Parliamentary Con Party and gets to stays in post longer.    I think that, as she is rapidly heading for the rocks personally anyway she may well take the gamble to save herself and her deal.   If she does then there’s one thing I’m sure of and that is that it will be the most ‘gloves off dirty’ campaign we have ever seen.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Bob Williams]

Fed up to the back teeth (well the two I have left) with Brexit and politicians, whichever side of the House and whichever side of the Channel. Beginning to wish I had gone to Oz with my mate in 1967, instead of joining the Army in ’64. Or taken the job offered in Kelowna, BC, Canada, in ’81. Anywhere but here, now, in this mad country, almost half the population of which lost its collective sh1t in the Brexit vote.

All debate here, in Westminster and the media, is circular argument which goes around and around, with no solutions.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The VFM Addict]

Interesting that you suggest Oz, Bob, given that it now has close to a sink on sight policy re illegal immigrants and is totally against freedom of movement on economic grounds.   Heck if it had the open door policy we have had the last decade half of South East Asia would be living in Sydney by now.    Yet you appear to be in against such a firm stance in the UK.   Frankly if we were more like Oz we wouldn’t be where we are today I strongly suspect.   I can’t see Oz willing to trade even one iota of its sovereignty.   None of the trade blocs it is in have the political ambitions (i.e. single currency, freedom of movement, commitment to a common army, etc.).     Can you really not see that it is the political ambitions of the EU that cause our problems here today.   And of course when we joined those long term political ambitions which our politicians were aware of were kept from us by them.   That is the cause of where we are today.    If you are fed up with the UK in essence it is those deceitful individuals and Major at a letter point who committed us without our say so that are more to blame than anyone today.    Major by threats to his party put a sticking plaster over a boil that in reality needed lancing and sorting there and then before the toxins spread through the whole body such that sorting them out causes what we see today.   A Ref back then no matter whether the decision was to join or not would have created a mandate that would endure today.   With no original mandate where we are today was inevitable.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

Talk about the PM not listening or losing the plot..   May now says in N.I. in response to a press question that when she goes to Brussels she is not looking to have the backstop removed just merely amended.   Christ !!!   The Graham Brady amendment which she had whipped last week and which passed, that is to say the very mandate that she has to revisit Brussels, required an ‘alternative’ to the backstop being put in place.   Talk about losing the plot.

Turning May’s style of reasoning against her can I state clearly that I don’t want her removed from office I merely want an alternative PM put in place.    Hands up (from either side of the Brexit divide) those that agree that May is more part of the problem than part of the solution.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Richard]

I think the real problem is that when I click on the tag for the latest post in this thread, I end up on post page 1  and have to go searching. Is this a plot to slow down the rate of posting new material I wonder?

[Ed P]

It was all just another May ‘kick into the long grass’ ploy. One day soon she is going to have to ante-up as I sense the MPs are losing patience, just like the rest of the country.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Anyone fancy a special place in hell ? Apparently all you have to do to qualify is to not agree a sensible UK withdrawal from the EU. I nominate the leader of the EU council to be first in line !

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

And there is a compromise plan in the offing. The crappy EU deal but with a legally binding time limit on the NI backstop. Why will the EU not agree to that if, as they say, they never intend for it to come into effect ?

Well I will tell you. Its because they have every intention of using it to trap the UK into a customs union forever.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

The EU have been saying that the most they will offer is another statement of intent to agree a deal before the backstop kicks in. Why waste the ink ?

[Dave Rice]

I’ll put my hands up to May not being in charge (of anything).

The problem is who takes over? BoJo? opens his mouth and an innocent woman gets 5 years added to her sentence. Too far Remain or Leave and we’ll have major problems. Second referendum? Probably more trouble than it’s worth.

Gordon Browns idea has some worth, get public forums to shape what the exit looks like. I think most Remainers would be mollified if they thought they had had some say and not held to ransom by a bunch of idiots who only get oxygen due to the numbers in parliament, plus a bunch of people who won’t even govern in their own jurisdiction.

The problem is March 29th but I cannot see how anything can be sorted by then. Forget the cliff edge, no reasonable Government could ever inflict that damage to their country – I’m not going to argue that point any more. Anyone who thinks it won’t isn’t going to listen to anything.

[The VFM Addict]

Dave Rice wrote:

The problem is March 29th but I cannot see how anything can be sorted by then. Forget the cliff edge, no reasonable Government could ever inflict that damage to their country – I’m not going to argue that point any more. Anyone who thinks it won’t isn’t going to listen to anything.

I think we would disagree though which ‘Government’ would be inflicting it on us.    I’ve argued time and again that it is the UK not Eire not the EU that will bear the pain if the Troubles reignite in N.I. or on the UK mainland.  WE have the greatest incentive not to have a hard border.   We do not need to be threatened with the backstop to incentivise us.

I simply cannot see the logic in the EU sticking to the backstop.  Doing so will make a No Deal Brexit more likely (perhaps inevitable).   So what good is the backstop then?     It seems to me it is the EU holding a gun to both our and its head but worst of all to Eire’s head because they get hit hardest of all by a No Deal.   EU politicians are already threatening to kick Eire out of the customs union if it doesn’t enforce a hard border in the event of a No Deal.     Can you really not see who are the bullies here.   Yet they say they are doing so in major part because of a commitment to its member, Eire, and to the GFA.    Their backstop violates the GFA as I’m certain the judicial review Lord Trimble and other architects of the GFA are seeking.

Frankly as a Brexiteer I’m rather spend eternity in that ‘special place in hell’ Tusk is now talking about that ever submit to the bullying of the EU Commission Elite.   I think the true face of the EU will become visible if we No Deal from the way it will treat Eire.    When that happens?  Who do you think will be there for them?   I’d tell you but I think you know.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Ed P]

What Brexit has done is to identify the very large percentage of incompetents in the Conservative Government. Starting of course with May, then Bojo, our worst ever Foreign Secretary, then Grayling who hires dubious shipping companies without first checking on Calais’ post Brexit capabilities. Not to forget clueless Brexit Bulldog Davies and slime-ball Mogg, or other incompetents such as our previous ill-Health Minister with the unfortunate rhyming name and used to good effect by Nurses and Junior Doctors.

[The VFM Addict]

Just spoke in the corner shop with a Pole that I’ve known for the best part of 10 years.   He knows the British mentality well by now, obviously.   He thinks Tusk is a total idiot if he doesn’t realise that his comments today will only harden Brexiteers and may even make a few Remainers become “pissed off” with the EU.   The term “pissed off” was his not mine.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Author]

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