Brexit now = CETA +/-?

[Ed P]

A month or so ago the Scottish newspapers were full of accounts (unverified) that Cork is already being used as a transit point for EU based economic migrants. Apparently it is an easier route than coming through Calais-Dover etc.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

What happened to Ed’s post about “unverified” reports in Scottish papers ?

I was going to put his mind at rest ?

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Oh silly me its on the next page.

EU migrants entering Ireland do first have to be registered EU citizens. If we have no deal with the EU then crossing the UK border without a visa will be illegal. As EU citizens there is no problem finding a place to deport them to.

As for unregistered econnomic migrants, they would be better off just landing here in the first place.

[Ed P]

Compared with Calais-Dover, the Santander-Cork, then one of the 208-275 Eire/Ulster crossings is much easier than trying to get into the UK from France.

Once in, the Court of Human (mis)Rights and International Law prevents you from just kicking them out. Even if you navigate that minefield, you can only kick them back to their own country (if that country will have them).

Neither of these courts of law change no matter which version of Brexit you favour.

Apart from the ensuing blood-bath it gets much easier if we break up the UK and hive off Ulster as Dan suggests. However, thanks to the DUP, the present Government would not last 5 seconds if it even  tried.

If you ever foolishly get into a conversation with either an Ulster-man or a Sinn Féin supporter you will soon find yourself embroiled in historical arguments dating back to Cromwell. The causes of both are too deeply embedded in religion, bigotry, language and history to be capable of cold-blooded rational argument. Better by far to find compromises and paper over the cracks with meaningless words as done by Theresa May.

[Ed P]

I have just found one link to the allegations on the use of the soft Irish border. link

[Spedley]

D-Dan wrote:

This is the ONLY problem with the Irish border argument. The fact that the EU see two states, rather than a single landmass (which is ironic, since they can handle the single landmass elsewhere).

Apparently there are more crossings over the N’ Irish/Eire Border (300-ish iirc) than there are on all the other EU/Non-EU borders put together.

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[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Leave the border as it is like i said for now.

We do not get get floods of inflatables on our shores because they cant make it here, much less lreland.

Why would they cross the med then walk to france then get a boat to ireland then walk to NI then boat to the UK ? Every time chancing getting caught ???

Oh and why would they bother anyway if we are the spent force the EU say we are.

[Ed P]

Unlike many others immigration was not a huge concern to me, but economic impacts were and still are of concern as they will have the most impact on the next generation(s).

I touched on immigration but I was really trying to explain why Ireland/Ulster is a much bigger issue than the general public seem to realise, and drives many of the reasons why May could not go for a ‘hard’ Brexit and opted for a ‘fudge’.

On the economic front we could take 5 years to recover from all we have lost so far, and even longer if May’s moderate proposals are not accepted.

If you look at where we were (the strongest growth in Europe) before Brexit and where we are now — a six year low and nearly the weakest in Europe.  That alone translates to billions of pounds and we are still to try and negotiate the Financial/Services sector.

[The Duke]

Why not just let them come. Keep the movement of people the same. It’s a good set up.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Well there you go Ed. Six indians and a couple of albanians. Nothing is perfect like you pointed out about the good friday agreement but I think we can stand that level of immigration ?

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Oh and Ed immigration does impact me. Here in Wembley London we have gone from 95% white british to 95% non white british (google Wembley central demographic) in only 40 years.

[The VFM Addict]

I live near Uxbridge but would add a clarification to what Wheels just said.   Most of the change in Wembley is not direct immigration but the movement of second, third and fourth generation immigrants from other areas such as Southall. Hounslow, Luton, etc.  although such may have been what Wheels was meaning when he said ‘non white british’.

Hillingdon on the other hand is changing not as a result of movement from the close Asian communities of Hounslow and Southall, which one might expect, but from a rapidly growing Eastern European community. Personally, I think that people feel more ‘threatened’ by such because of the language barrier.   Asian ethnic internal migration (i.e. of non white british) is not such a perceived ‘threat’ because second, third and fourth generation Asians, who have grown up here are totally fluent in English.   One must not underrate the importance of communication.    Folks always feel more threatened  by those they cannot converse with than those they can.    Given this it is perhaps hardly surprising that Hillingdon was one of the few London areas that voted leave.

 

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Er well no VFM

I was not going to get into imigration apart from who may slip past the irish border but English is just not spoken in Wembley high road. They are fresh off the plane from Heathrow.

The poles are a bteath of fresh air.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

I really like the poles. The first wave we got were the useless drunks but now we have the young couples with toddlers. Couldnt be more polite.

[The VFM Addict]

Wheels-Of-Fire wrote:

I really like the poles. The first wave we got were the useless drunks but now we have the young couples with toddlers. Couldnt be more polite.

So do I.    I grew up with many Polish families near where the Polish cultural Centre in now in Hammersmith.   My Leave vote had nothing to do with immigration and was because of the non-democratic nature of the EU.   The point I was trying to make is that I suspect that those who do feel threatened by the Eastern Europeans probably feel such because of the language barrier that is far more marked than with internal Asian migration.

What does confuse me in your responses though is that you had said ‘in only 40 years’.   Surely that suggests you are also talking migration pre the Eastern European influx.    Certainly my experience of Wembley is that from the mid 1980 its ethnic Asian population has grown astoundingly and having spoken to many commercially of that population almost all seem to be internal migrants from Harrow, Southall and Hounslow.   That is to say the language barrier was all but non-existent.

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________

During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Well seeing as you are so close VFM I would sudgest you come and have a look and listen.

How about we meet up ?

[keith with the teef]

Trump is well putting the cat amongst the pigeons.

Gotta love that bloke.

As it currently stands he’s a juggernaught. But the world is catching up.

All those fat apothetic women with attitude marching in london against trump. lols. we are all laughing at them. what happend to people? No wonder the japanese R not breeding? perhaps we can find the answer there!

[Ed P]

I think Trump has just given one more demonstration that he is an untrustworthy ally. Whatever the rights or wrongs of his statements you do not bushwack your host to the media.

It could not be clearer that he puts short-term US electoral needs above everything else. Can you really rely on someone like this as your military partner, or will he sidle away if he thinks it is in the interest of his voters?

[keith with the teef]

Cannot wait to see what he’s gotta say to pootin. 🙂

[The Duke]

Why not do what all the other white folk have done and move out of Wembley?

As if the swing is 95 percent all the way to 5 percent, half the isulse is the local white folk moving out, as it is coloured propel moving in.

I first went Wembley in I thin 1992 or 3, first time I’d been a place in Thr UK with next to no white people. So very much doubt the swing has been over the last 40 years. As 30 years ago, it was probably closer to a 90/10 mix in favour of coloureds.(not even sure if that word is except able today).

I have no issue with immigrants, wether EU or world wide. We a historically a mixing pot of an island. Under our current law, if someone turns up, and doesn’t find a job within 3 months (iirc) we the uk have the power to send them home (if safe). So I’m happy with how it is. I’d rather we dropped all boarders. After all they are just man made, and designed to control the people within them.

I worked around grater London for about 2 years 2002till 5, hated the place. Too much traffic, very few had manners, the ones with wasn’t the white ‘locals’ on the whole.

From what I seen in London, is its very segregated in to uk white, uk black, UK poles, etc.. Then you have smaller immigrant communities for each type of person.

If we just all just integrated more, made some effort, I’m sure we wouldn’t even notice other people’s colours

Liverpool is a great example of good integration. You get the odd racist, but there isn’t many. I’m sure there are others cities also. Quite ironic given Liverpools dark past.

Brexit, isn’t gonna solve immergrarion so it’s a worthless debate any way.

[Author]

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