Brexit now = CETA +/-?

[Ed P]

The ConArtists, sorry Conservatives in this area seem to have given up and are campaigning for a Remain vote in the forthcoming second referendum. Jumping the gun a bit I think!

Their platform if you can call it that is that a second referendum is an affront to democracy, and that people should cast a vote for a Brexit (whatever that means) at the second referendum to ensure their first vote is not wasted.

Nothing about economics or the impacts of a hard Brexit, just pure emotional BS..

[Ed P]

Bob Williams wrote:

Our nation is ruled by descendants of those who came over with William I: the Normans are still here.

Historically questionable I think. Most of  the people’s common land was grabbed in the Inclosure Acts (280,000 sq Kms) by Hanoverian descendants  who have very loose and questionable links with William 1.

[Dave Rice]

We are a mongrel nation, always have been. I’ll bet the Neolithic locals of the time were moaning about the poxy Bronze Age Beaker people coming here and nicking our Stonehenge. They were up your way too Bob, western Europe’s oldest plank built boat was found in the Humber Estuary. Bloody economic migrants, they’ve been up to it for thousands of years ?

[Bob Williams]

Dave Rice wrote:

They were up your way too Bob, western Europe’s oldest plank built boat was found in the Humber Estuary. Bloody economic migrants, they’ve been up to it for thousands of years

Yes I have seen that boat Dave. What tickles me about people coming into the land later known as the British Isles after the Ice left, is winding up a certain type of Irish person. Fact: after the ice gradually withdrew, there were no humans of any species in these islands, with the very vague possible exception of certain parts of Southern England and west Wales, but these areas suffered temperatures so low as to be uninhabitable for any human species of the time.

Fact: The first Neolithic ‘immigrants’ came into what is now southern Britain and spread West as the climate warmed. Ireland was completely without any human population at this time. Neolithic peoples moving West, eventually emigrated again – to what became Ireland. So one can say that our Neolithic ancestors living in Britain, were the people who became the Irish.

Please be careful in your choice of Irish pub in which to tell this tale!??

It’s a pity that they did not build bigger, more ocean-going boats. If they had kept moving West, perhaps America would be very different now! Just a thought…

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Dave Rice]

We have diverged again ? Some think they did Bob. Flint worked to a European pattern found dated to the end of the last ice age. They think climate change later wiped them out before what we think of as native Americans came down from the north. Mind you theories change all the time as we get better at things like DNA. I find it fascinating.

[Bob Williams]

I also find it fascinating Dave. Another interesting discovery, was the presence of manufactured stone tools in Ireland and some European locations. The stone came from the Cumbrian Langdale axe industry:

http://tinyurl.com/ybacb3jp

Reading the WIKI article gives information I find particularly interesting: Lincolnshire had the largest concentration of Langdale tools. In my wanderings across Lincolnshire beaches, I have only looked for flint knappings and tools, but now I will search for the Langdale items. During the years of beach Renourishment* to provide better protection for Lincolnshire coasts, in the Season I mainly searched the more deserted spots that Grockles do not know. I have found a great and varied amount of flint knappings, a very few actual tools such as scrapers, arrow and spear heads, very seldom a hand axe. These go to a local museum.

*A Netherlands company (who else?) annually dredges our offshore seabed and pumps up sand, stone and other detritus, all along our coasts. This is then allowed to partially dry before heaping up and leveling into a slope, close to what was once a Seawall. Dune grass is planted and, over the last few years, high dunes have grown, with small hummocks between them. This makes for perfect picnic spots out of any wind. The idea is that a severely high tide will roll up to the dunes until the height is too great to go further, then the water drains out through the sand, back to sea. It does work, much better than the old concrete seawalls, now buried by the sand and the dunes. Among the stuff along the beach after a big tide, are scatterings of stone knappings and some expired sea life. Apparently, before the North Sea cut us off from Europe, Doggerland was the scene for annual meets between European and ‘British’ neolithic peoples. Tools, clothing and even people were exchanged, the people being youngsters who found new partners and went West or East to make new families, thus increasing genetic diversity among a relatively small population.

What interesting times our distant ancestors lived through, however briefly! And they found no distinction between ‘European’ and ‘British’, there being no such titles for people then. All spoke a variety of the same language, probably had the same beliefs.

Thought-provoking, for Brexiteers???

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The Duke]

Bob the axe owner was either on his hols, pterodactyl air pronaly. or given we had free trade then, he could of sold it and shipped it via mamaouth post, to the mainland. Lol

Both very reasonable options.

 

[Bob Williams]

A few surviving Mammoths might have been around then Steve, although the Neolithic Brits loved Mammoth Burgers and slaughtered them for meat, tusks and skin for clothing. Pterodactyls were living in the Late Jurassic, between 164 and 145 Million years ago, way before the distant ancestors of humans arrived. There have been several Pterodactyl fossils found in Southern Britain though. Looks like they would have been tough to eat:

Skinny, bony, legs and wings. Not as nice as the Chicken I had last night. And a lot uglier.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Bob Williams]

A few surviving Mammoths might have been around then Steve, although the Neolithic Brits loved Mammoth Burgers and slaughtered them for meat, tusks and skin for clothing. Pterodactyls were living in the Late Jurassic, between 164 and 145 Million years ago, way before the distant ancestors of humans arrived. There have been several Pterodactyl fossils found in Southern Britain though. Looks like they would have been tough to eat:

Skinny, bony, legs and wings. Not as nice as the Chicken I had last night. And a lot uglier.

Good win today!

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Dave Rice]

Another myth debunked. Should we decide not to leave we don’t have to go back cap in hand to the EU 27 who will squeeze us until the pips squeak, make us join the Euro, annex Gibraltar, nick all the fish, etc. We just say we’re not leaving and that’s that.

[The Duke]

I never knew people thought the oppersite Dave. That was always the way. Last week (iirc Thursday) I heard on the radio that with the EU or us, had to come out and say we could just terminate A50 and carry on, blew me away a bit, given I already knew that.

I’d not heard anyone saying anything different, so didn’t realise people must of been thinking what you point out above.

Now if we leave and then want to return, like someone mentioned above, then we will be entering on the bottom run, and we’ll be squezzed to within an inch of our life’s, and so we should be. That’s how business works. If we need to go back, we have zero bargaining power then.

Were not leaving anyway Dave. Ive said it for over 2 years now, and am yet to see anything different. I’ve long suspected may was briefed to built a terrible deal, and she will be ‘made whole’ after politics.

It will be interesting to see what positions out of gov she gets post ner leadership and this brexit ballache.

Whatever the plan they need to speed up the time line, as it’s getting boring and the uncertainty is starting to bite.

[Dave Rice]

They all get plum jobs on big banks / corporate boards and the speaking circuit regardless of how crap they’ve been. They have contacts, that’s their value.

[Ed P]

You may have missed my earlier post in which my local ConArtists are banking on a second referendum and are raving about ‘Vote remain and save democracy’.  Be good if we ever had a real democracy to save!

[Dave Rice]

Well the vote is off. What will they do now?

[Bob Williams]

What they always do Dave: run around like headless chickens, argue for and against several irrelevant points, then have a ‘knee jerk’ moment and come up with something else that fails to please all the people even some of the time.

This whole Brexit process has exposed our political leaders on all sides as incompetent and subject to an even greater lack of trust by the electorate than previously. Which I had not thought possible.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The VFM Addict]

Dave Rice wrote:

Another myth debunked. Should we decide not to leave we don’t have to go back cap in hand to the EU 27 who will squeeze us until the pips squeak, make us join the Euro, annex Gibraltar, nick all the fish, etc. We just say we’re not leaving and that’s that.

I suggest you read the actual judgement that was handed down.   It is well crafted to allow the ECJ to jump either way at a later stage when push comes to shove.  It is nowhere near as clear as you imply, Dave.  Go read it, folks.

 

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

I’ve been watching the currency markets very closely this morning.  If anything proves how uncertainty damages Sterling this morning was it.   Everyone knew May’s deal would be voted down (i.e. certainty) no real impact on the markets.   The very second May pulled the vote instant and staggeringly dramatic falls (i.e. uncertainty).

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Dave Rice]

Well that’s not what anyone else is saying.

Court of Justice of the European Union
PRESS RELEASE No 191/18
Luxembourg, 10 December 2018

The United Kingdom is free to revoke unilaterally the notification of its intention to withdraw from the EU.
Such a revocation, decided in accordance with its own national constitutional requirements, would have the effect that the United Kingdom remains in the EU under terms that are unchanged as regards its status as a Member State.

Enlighten me as to how that is ambiguous.

[Ed P]

The VFM Addict wrote:

The very second May pulled the vote instant and staggeringly dramatic falls (i.e. uncertainty).

Or a market reaction to the possibility of a Hard Brexit. It is the vector, and not the movement that is an important indicator,

[Bob Williams]

I read this:

http://tinyurl.com/ybx2ho23

And then I read this:

http://tinyurl.com/ydzyeb2w

And, just to rub salt in the wound, this happened a couple of days ago:

http://tinyurl.com/yajdoxn2

Seems to me that government Civil contract procurement, is even worse than MOD military procurement.

The lunatics have officially taken over the asylum.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Author]

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