Brexit now = CETA +/-?

[Dave Rice]

Clearly I don’t agree with your view, leave it at that. You are not going convince me that leaving is anything other than bad and vice versa.

If you believe in leave by any means and you don’t care about any consequences then just shut your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and ignore anything to the contrary. If you don’t then you need to start asking how things like the Irish border will be resolved.

[The Duke]

I see about 700k turned out for a remain march vs just 1.2k for a leave means leave march.

Seems to me there will be a vote of one form or other before to long. And then we will have a proper more informed and final answer.

The if it’s still leave so be it. I’m happy with a vote on how we leave. After all that is true democracy in action.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Nop you dont see it oh well

[Ed P]

Wheels-Of-Fire wrote:

Nop you dont see it oh well

Not sure what ‘it’ is, but I probably do not see it either.

If ‘it’ is the Brexit idea of ‘democracy’ then I do not see ‘it’ either.

We do not have ‘democracy’  in this country but instead we have a five year elected dictatorship, that feels empowered to do its own thing irrespective of whether they lied or dissembled in their manifesto.

I would apply the same criticism to the referendum – we are not going to get what those in favour thought they were voting to get. Just go down the list of promises and we will get none of them except the downsides. That is why I believe we need another referendum.

If the public are misguided enough to want a hard Brexit and cut off Northern Ireland then so be it. (For the reasons previously outlined a Hard Brexit and a wide open border with the EU in Ireland for both goods and people  just cannot work., Ulster would have to be cast adrift)

[The Duke]

WoF could you define ‘it’ and I’ll answer if I ‘get it’.

As without clarification I couldn’t answer if I ‘get it’. Or if I think your ‘it’ is pointless or not.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

There are actually two “its” . I did make the first one clear. The EU institution HATES us. They hate our ways they hate our history they hate any success we may have and most of all they hate the fact that they need our money ! They keep telling us we need THEM while all the while they are bleeding US dry. Not all of us are happy for this to continue and that brings me to the second “it”. We had a “Peoples” vote for a change and the result MUST stand. The “elected dictatorship” as Ed puts it must do as they were told for a change.

[Ed P]

I trust the EU rather more than I do the bunch of incompetents we have in charge of this country

For example Chris Grayling of Rail Timetable shambles infamy is in charge of Brexit infrastructure contingency planning!

[Bob Williams]

So this rumbles on in the Forum, 28 pages of points which are now boring me sh**less! I see it now as a battle between those who have, as Steve puts it, completely “lost their shit” because they know internally that they are wrong and refuse to recognise that fact, and the select few who give reasoned debate, which is attacked with shaky ‘fact’ drawn from questionable sources.

I am drawn to gradually accepting another referendum, this time with clear, concise explanations from both sides. We won’t get that, because the so-called Decision Makers in Westminster also appear to have collectively lost their shit also. They are a bunch of headless chickens, some sticking to scenarios they do not have the intelligence and forethought to understand what this means for the aftermath and the future of our young people, who will come to look at the situation and the way it was handled with a very jaundiced eye. I think we will need a GE before it can be properly settled.

Yes there are issues with Brussels Bureaucracy and EU Directives, but the alternative under the idiots in Westminster is worse. At least the EU has one mind about what their end point means, whilst some of our rulers appear to possess the intelligence of an earthworm having been sliced by a spade.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

So many jokes I could make about the EU having 1 mind here..

But I won’t bother ?

[Bob Williams]

Let’s hear them. If they are as good and accurate as some of your comments here, there will not be many laughs.

Truth is that the real EU leaders* are of one mind: they don’t want us to go and they are doing their best to prevent us going. Remain protesters turning out in their thousands across the UK is one encouragement to them. The thoughts of all those young British citizens now eligible to vote, is another.

Meanwhile the governing Party here is divided into several parts, whose aim is united in refusing to back their PM. They are taking what was once an impossible Tory path, in joining the Opposition to vote against the Chequers Plan. All going Pete Tong, Graham.

*Germany and France, obviously. Their contributions are going to have to rise if we leave, and their collective influence amongst other Member States, goes down. Not a happy result with German voters, Angela!

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The Duke]

Why do people talk of the EU as a seperate body, the uk make up part of the membership, and pass all theses laws the brextremists keep blaming the EU for. Atm and for the last 40 years WE ARE THE EU.

It’s isn’t an us and them, it’s a we. Once we are on the outside them it’s a UK v EU issue. And them we will see how shit it really will be.

[Ed P]

“Why do people talk of the EU as a seperate body”

Just two words of dubious fame: Aaron Banks!

[The Duke]

One of many 3rd party leave campaigners that peddled BS claims they had no authority to back up. I don’t care how they was funded tbh, I’d like evey campaign head to be held accountable for their false promise. Or at least explain how they envisaged making their claims a reality, when they held zero political power.

It’s easy to make promises, much harder to back them up.

I could run and say free energy and food for all if you vote labour. Now if one person votes cos of my campaign I should be dragged over the coals, and even imprisoned. Why imare these 3rd party parties not being called out and pursued.

The only party any one should of taken any notice of is the offical party. And even that literally crumbled within 24h of winning. I got the feeling the heads of the offical leave campaign had no interest in actually winning. It was a puppet show intended to give the illusion of democracy, that back fired solely because of the 3rd party organisations that was pedding BS. Their BS may of held a lot of half truths, but still they had zero power to ever fulfill these promises. This was plain to see in the run up, but many moronic people fell for the manure. And here we are.

[Dave Rice]

It doesn’t matter Steve. It’s all fingers in the ears, and no-one knows, it’ll be OK if only everyone believed etc.

They aren’t going to take any notice until it’s too late and then those that are worse off now will be even more worse off. Then which bogeyman will get the blame? But we’ll have the blue passport we could always have had anyway.

[Ed P]

IF the criminal investigators manage to pin down the alleged African sources of funds to the Russians then all bets are off. However those sort of investigations take years unless the CIA gives a helping hand and prod!

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Quite a surprise on the C4 Referendum vote program. They only managed to get 56% of the people they interviewed to agree with them ! That pretty much guarantees that an actual vote would come out massively in favour of leave doesn’t it ?

[Bob Williams]

No Graham, it just guarantees the thoughts and opinions of some Ch4 interviewees. How many in total, did the channel actually interview? Link?

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

The sample was about 20k people but with the best will in the world they could not get a representative sample. Imagine the conversation.

C4.

Hello, were from C4 television and we are conducting a survey…

Leaver.

Im sorry I just remembered I have to de-flea the dog, Goodbye.

If the sun did a Brexit survey in Liverpool then the result would be about 98% leave because only a tiny number of remainers would even talk to them !

Add to that that the biggest number of Remainers are under 30 and they have the lowest turnout (cant be arsed) in any election and I have little doubt what the result of a Second “Peoples Vote” would be.

 

[Bob Williams]

You are discounting the feeling amongst many millions of young people now able to vote after reaching 18 years of age, since the last indeterminate shambles. I speak to a lot of them, mates of my grandbrats, actually had a larger, unnoticed audience listening to me in McD’s with my grandbrats. The overwhelming majority would like another Referendum and would vote Remain. Most of them believe that the older generations have destroyed their future and I completely agree with them.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The Duke]

Liverpool was a high remain state. And Thr Scum would get next to zero participation drin any sun survey.

Liverpool would rather take trh Scottish route than leave the EU. ie leave the uk. In favour of the EU.

[Author]

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