Brexit now = CETA +/-?

[Ed P]

I would agree with Dave that the EU jas many faults, but it is perfectly clear that Bojo et al lied. Leaving the EU will cost us a fortune and there is no way that we will be able to get it back through trade deals that are better than those of the EU. The BS arguments about regulations are just that BS, you cannot trade in the world without conforming to the regulatory requirements of the importing country.

What exactly would we gain by junking EU regulations> GM foods — no thank you, I’ll first let the Yanks experiment on the long term impacts of pesticide modifications on their own population thank you!

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Well they didn’t argue for the other side Ed. The amount of misinformation comming from the remain camp was already deafening. Infact I doubt Boris and co made much difference because unless you were already going to vote out you wouldn’t have heard them over the din.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

What was important was for Boris and Nigel to be there. Two public figures standing up and saying they wanted out. For many years those of us with the same idea had been told we were a tiny minority with a twisted view. Suddenly we were not alone and we declared our displeasure in the biggest vote in British history.

[The Duke]

When we have the next referendum, given we will have a couple of leave choices and one remain, we’ll all be saved. ?????

[Bob Williams]

Whether or not a new Referendum is actually imposed upon a population that already made a democratic decision, is irrelevant. Whether such a monstrously undemocratic action results in a change of vote to Remain within the EU, is also irrelevant. Whatever happens from now on, we will never again be fully trusted by the EU and advantages gained by other member states will not necessarily be automatically extended to the UK, even in the event of a decisive vote to Remain.

“Misinformation from the Remain camp” was matched by similar misinformation by the Leave organisations. Both sides lied to us: I have stated this repeatedly here. Those political and allied figures involved, created half-truths and made up ‘statistics’ to support their own positions, which were mainly influenced by hopes of eventual power, financial and commercial interest.

You are stooping low enough to use the clownish figures of a (twice failed) leader of UKIP, and a public school Loon who shoots himself in the foot with every other ridiculous phrase he utters. With such “support” for your cause, how can you fail?

Answers on the back of a tenner please, before it becomes worth less than today’s £1.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Ed P]

While I agree with much of what you said, especially ‘lying politicians’, I disagree with respect to your statement that it would be undemocratic to have another referendum. In fact it is a common occurrence for democracies to periodically have repeat  chances to cast a vote. It is only at those times that we have the opportunity to express our displeasure at their lies and broken promises. It is also common elsewhere to have repeated referenda over the same issues.

The only real debate is on timing. Would now, (when we know the terms and implications of Brexit) be the right time for one. By my previous statements I truly believe that to be the case.

What impact this would have on our already damaged relationships with the EU, I do not know,; but Eire did not suffer long term damage from their second referendum and neither did Spain.

While there may be a feeling of resentment in the EU populace, I do not think that would be reflected at Government level as they are quite aware that Brexit has already cost us billions of pounds, as well as damaging our economic growth to the benefit of other EU members.

[Bob Williams]

” In fact it is a common occurrence for democracies to periodically have repeat chances to cast a vote. ”

Please tell me when that last happened in the UK Ed.

” It is also common elsewhere to have repeated referenda over the same issues. ”

I am not at all surprised that other supposedly democratic nations have referenda after referenda. That happens when those in power refuse to accept the will of the people, and hammer them with repeats until they get the outcome they want. That is what happened during the Maastricht votes, when certain member states did not accept the decision of their own people. That was ammunition for the Leave group of course and an illustration of how the EU can shoot itself in the foot. Another reason why Hungary, Poland and others are becoming very displeased with Brussels.

My point is that the UK population which voted, made a democratic choice. Failure to accept that by some voluble sections of the British people is wrong. Without respect for a democratic majority decision, what do we have? Remember that I voted Remain, but my belief in democracy is more important than ignoring that democratic decision, to get a result that I dearly wish had come about.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Dave Rice]

No, we don’t really do referendums in the UK as we are a representative democracy. In other countries, such as Eire and especially Switzerland, it’s part of the constitutional arrangements. Therefore they do them much better than we do in all respects. I think I’m right in that for the Irish ones the wording of the question(s) is decided by representatives of the public, not the politicians. I don’t think we’re grown up enough to do that ? So we don’t have any referendum history to set a precedent either way as to timing (or much else).

What we do know how to do is a General Election, and as I’ve mentioned before some have been very close together indeed. I was all for a “Peoples Vote” but I’m coming round to think this will be just as divisive and have the same issues as the last one.

What is for sure is that Tories are lost in a mire of their own making and their actions since the vote have only made it worse. The country is being held hostage by several opposing minority groups that have the power to bring the Government down. Pleasing them all is impossible and the more rabid of them listen to no-one except their own voices which now have more power than ever before, or will again.

A lot of these characters are the ones the media would go to for a loony view of any particular topic in the knowledge that they knew what answer would be coming. I wouldn’t trust any of that lot to be in a position to govern anyone.

[Ed P]

Bob Williams wrote:

” In fact it is a common occurrence for democracies to periodically have repeat chances to cast a vote. ”

Most ‘democracies’ have regular votes i.e elections.

We had ours in 2017, and it is rumoured that Theresa aka Submarine May will surface to launch a November 2018 Election missile at the Tory Conference. If she does, I and a lot of other Middle of the Road people will vote Labour in order to get a chance to stay in the EU. It would not surprise me to find a lot of lifelong Tory city types doing the same thing.

Interesting times

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

An election is not going to happen as there is no excuse for it. Mrs May was personally elected for a fixed 5 year term this time.

However if there was an election and Labour won I would refuse to accept the result as I would not agree with it and a simple majority is not good enough for me. I would bang my fists and stamp my little feet.

[Richard]

I can only imagine that you have a totally self destruct bent Ed. The risks of a very left wing mob somewhat aligned to the Venezuela nut job crew should fill anyone who can think with horror, but perhaps enough do have a death wish. You would welcome the back to the ‘everybody out on strike and someone else will pay’ seventies style industrial anarchy where according to one ‘leader’ if you do not like a law you can ignore the law? Does that go for all laws, free speech ignore it, race laws, ignore them to, would murder cease to be a crime if you did not like the now dead person? Or will they try to repeal the law of consequence? Look how well Blair’s laws on banking turned out, now about the only people who can easily get a bank account are those seeking to do money laundering. As for their stupid terrorists allowed free immigration ideas, perhaps ignoring all laws will be the new style within a few weeks, except the I suspect the ‘freedom fighters’ would be a protected species.

[Ed P]

Better that Richard than 15 years of jobless poverty following a hard Brexit.

[Ed P]

Btw Richard there are many laws that are ignored by the general population. For example,:

a) Anyone who celebrates Easter on any day except the first Sunday after the second Saturday in April is ignoring the law’

b) Anyone carrying a plank of wood in the street is breaking the law.

c) An employer cannot give a (subjective) bad reference as this may constitute libel.

d) It is an offense to activate your burglar alarm and leave the property if you haven’t nominated a key-holder who can access your house to switch off your alarm should it go off. (As a result most alarms switch themselves off after 10 minutes or so)

There are many more daft laws that people ignore and our overstretched police force just ignores.

[Richard]

If you are able to believe that UK hating EU loving claptrap, I have a few bridges you might like to buy.

 

[Richard]

You should know to what I was referring, it was a speak by one of your new heroes praising the Liverpool criminals. However, I do not really have the time to waste on this pointless nonsense. How is your application for an EU ‘passport to federalised (or should that be feral?) freedom going and when do you leave this land you, like Corbyn and his merry thugs clearly hate?

[The Duke]

WOF good look ignoring a GE vote. You can, but Labour would still have power.

Anyhow I agree, I don’t think it will go to a GE, a second ref is far more likely. That way she gets out of having to push though a leave, she never wanted, and she gains one more year in power, as to the tories.

Whoever was in charge over this plwhole brexit period, no matter person or party, they was on a hiding to nothing.

I have a strong feeling, that when she got the job it was sold to as, who’s is going to almost inevitably kill your career, leave or stay, take one for the team, and you’ll be looked after on The back end. Ie, act tough on brexit, but ultimately back channel and make sure we stay.

The EU ‘idea’ of allowing an extention only if we have a second ref, and have stay on the card is genius for all involved. Thr 52 that wanted to leave, may grow, as some will of decided to swap sides, but I think more will want to go down the leave won, so I’ll want to hold up the decision, so that 52% may grow to 55ish maybe 60% how lever that 60% will be spread over 2 or more exit plans, and the 40% of remain voters is not split. Put 3 leave option on, and leave just can’t win at all. It’s a great solution.

I said before the first ref, a little bit of me wanted leave to win, just to see how they get out of it. The path now looks clear for a remain.

She was all tough and strange yesterday (or Friday) , on her speach, saying no second ref, EU can take it of leave it. It’s an act.

[RSB]

Now Now people. I should not be having to patrole this thread on a Sunday afternoon when I should be out having a beer! ? Keep it civil or it will be locked. And there is nothing more I would like to do with this Brexit thread and Brexit in general. ?

Americans: Over Sexed, Over Payed and Over here, Wat Wat!

[Richard]

Have a beer for me on that input*, I hallucinate that this has all been a bad dream and I will wake up in 2020 with peace rather than pieces raining down me.

*I have not had a drink since mid May due to various family health issues, so have and enjoy the beer or its brother beers for me as well as for you.

[RSB]

I will not be doing a repeat of last week. Just a few stops while walking on the river/ canal. Back in plenty of time for vanity fair on ITV tonight ?

Americans: Over Sexed, Over Payed and Over here, Wat Wat!

[The Duke]

I’ve not it had a drink since 5.30 am. I now remember why I stopped drinking rosé. Goes down as fast as lager and you only get two glasses out a bottle. Also had some wonderful cider, that wasn’t as bulbers, but not as sharp as strongbow. It’s issue was it was 8.2%  I can’t recall its name, and my friend is still past out back home. I was up at 9. 30, and on the road home for 12.

Which I probably shouldn’t of been tbh, I wasn’t tired, I fainting of little sleep, but I was feeling rough.

Anyway Lee, have fun, and another for me, cos I ain’t drinking anyone but vimpto and coffee for the rest of my life. Or friday, whichever comes first. ?

[Author]

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