Brexit now = CETA +/-?

[Optional]

Wheels-Of-Fire I wasn’t intending as correction, I noted you corrected thar to that, I was just saying.

Sorry about that, no pun intended

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

No problem. Did you also note my creative spelling of priority (intended) ?

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Another thing I note. In the event of a no deal the government is proposing to sign existing EU law into UK law wholesale, as is. Any future revisions would be debated and voted upon as usual.

The opposition is objecting though because they say it gives the government of the UK too many powers, powers that are currently held by the EU.

Have I got that wrong ?

[Dave Rice]

Yes and no. It’s not in event of no deal, it’s got to happen otherwise every single law will have to be brought back in individually. Clearly there is no time for that and most of it we’d want as is any way.

You have to remember that countries can add to the EU rules as we do with things like Health & Safety. Go to a Belgian hotel, you’ll find electrical switches and sockets in the bathroom. They can also create laws (or trade) where it’s not covered by an EU rule. The deals Cameron & Osborne did with China fall into that category.

The objections are over two things the Govt has slipped in to the bill:

• “Henry the 8th powers” which would allow ministers to change laws without going though parliament. I don’t think even the EU has that power. It also doesn’t fit with bringing back parliamentary sovereignty (which never went away anyway).
• Some of the laws are currently devolved to Scotland and Wales (probably N.I. too) but Westminster isn’t going to pass them on. It’s to allow consistency across the UK apparently, which seems total bollocks.

As usual MPs take the piss. They propose something that on the face of it seems reasonable and makes sense, then twist it to obtain more power for themselves. They all do it, always have, always will. By the time you get to vote them out it’s too late.

[The Duke]

In the event of a no deal. There will only be a no deal, if we leave. The whole hard vs soft, is fantasy.

Ive said before, our politicians can spout, this thst and the other is going to happen. Untill I hear a high ranking EU member say anything solid, it’s just all fantasy

We are leaving, we’ll go in to a recession, if we are lucky, it won’t end up a long term depression.

Though I still don’t think we’ll actually leave.

[Bob Williams]

Know I said I was done with this, but this is from a mate at chemo (some great ‘gallows humour’ in that ward, nurses join in) : –

“The British people need an Election. Our PM needs an erection!”

Cue several suffering chemo cases holding their sides.

 

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[The VFM Addict]

Not so sure about that, Bob.   From what the opinion polls say about her personal standing she’s already well f@%$ed……lol

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Bob Williams]

The VFM Addict wrote:

Not so sure about that, Bob. From what the opinion polls say about her personal standing she’s already well f@%$ed……lol

Nice riposte, VFM! ????

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Ed P]

Brexit –> NoExit then and now could be a catch-line for the Beebs latest poll.

No wonder there is so much tension in the Brexiteers ranks, if they force Theresa to the wall, then an Election or new Referendum could be their undesired outcomes.

[The Duke]

Given that anyone under about 55 isn’t going to have to see or endure the outcome of this. Maybe there should of been a cut off age on the referendum.

We keep hearing on how bad the Spanish and French economy is doing. But for the first time in probably 15 years of my coming over here, both countries, Especially Spain, seems to be booming in comparison to days of old.

There is building work everywhere, around both south and north Spain. Years gon by sites was ghost towns. Now at 6am,to 12, the plus is buzzing. Then everyone goes bed, for a few hours, then appear again about 10 pm to 1am having dinner.

I wouldn’t mind moving out to either France or Spain. Probably won’t be allowed to come March.

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

Maybe you should move really quick  the EU bribe to those places cant last much longer

[The Duke]

Lol, I wish I could.

[The VFM Addict]

Well, Farage is back.   He’s going on the road with Leave means Leave and as the UKIP Leadership is up for re-election next March the chances are he will stand.   I think this makes BoJo odds on as next Tory leader because even the Tory MPs know that he is the only leader that might be able to appear pro-Brexit enough to stop a major Tory voter bleed to UKIP.

Interesting times ahead.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Dave Rice]

I predict a riot. Probably of laughter.

Farage has never managed to get elected as an MP and BoJo only got to be a minister due to a weak leader who needed him inside the tent, not because he was up to the job.

What have either of them actually contributed to the common good? Farage’s greatest moment has been to spook the Tories into the most divisive action short of civil war there’s been in modern times. BoJo? I can’t think of anything at all.

Let them both loose, split the Tory vote and let a central / left wing alliance in to at least get something agreed with the EU. The Tories have shown themselves incapable of anything remotely in the interests of the country, not least because they cannot agree what is in the interests of the country whether anyone else agrees with it or not.

What a time to have a weak opposition and no centralist view. Interesting times indeed.

[The VFM Addict]

I think that to say that Farage never got elected is to miss the point and is somewhat at odds with your normal rant about the inequalities of FPTP.  The reality is of course that he managed to get 4 million plus votes for UKIP.   Such is very sizeable share of the vote which would in a proportionate system have given UKIP many dozens of seats.

The latest polling is that a very sizeable percentage of Labour voters would support a single issue party dedicated to delivering a full Brexit.  Therefore Labour has as much to fear from Farage’s return as do the Tories.

Laugh as much as you like but the betting odds have been shortening very dramatically over the last week or two regarding Boris becoming leader. The reality is that he is now favourite. And Farage’s return can only cause those odds to shorten further. Who else in the Tory party has any chance whatsoever of capturing both the Labour voters who remain intent on a full Brexit and retaining the Tory voters who are also such (the majority of the Tory party membership). Moreover, Boris has a proven track record of capturing Labour voters having twice taken London from Labour, a significant achievement. It is true that most Tory MPs would not of choice desire Boris as leader but I suspect that they desire losing their seats even less.

One area where I might agree with you is that there exists a not inconsiderable prospect of a left wing government after the next election. Not a Labour majority but a coalition with the wicked witch of the north.  Because it could be that only a Labour and SNP coalition could command a majority in the HoC.  But what price would Labour have to pay for SNP support?  A second Scot IndyRef at the very least I would suspect.  I seem to recall you stating that you would leave the UK if Corbyn became PM.  So I presume you do not welcome the prospect of such happening.

Of one thing we do appear in total agreement, Dave. These truly are Interesting Times.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Ed P]

But we do not have proportional representation, so that is irrelevant.

Farage had only marginal electoral support, and UKIP is plagued by instances of them committing self harm. Just like BoJo they could not organise a booze-up in a brewery.

In any case we will probably have another referendum before we have an election now the second referendum campaign has had a £1MM donation.

[The VFM Addict]

Ed P wrote:

But we do not have proportional representation, so that is irrelevant. Farage had only marginal electoral support, and UKIP is plagued by instances of them committing self harm. Just like BoJo they could not organise a booze-up in a brewery. In any case we will probably have another referendum before we have an election now the second referendum campaign has had a £1MM donation.

I can’t see that 4million plus votes is irrelevant in the context it was being discussed.  It showed that Nigel Farage’s position was resonating with a sizeable percentage of the population.    If one merely concentrates on seats then one would argue that had he had 50,000 voters supporting him in just one constituency (but none elsewhere) then those voters and the single seat it would have resulted in was more significant.   Quite patently it would not be.

As regards a second referendum I am neutral in that I don’t care either way about there being one.   I suspect there won’t be one but am certain that if there was then there would be an even greater majority for Leave.   Today’s poll (Sunday 19 Aug) in The Sun is clear that more Remainers have switched to Leave that the reverse.    This marries with my own experience.   The bullying by the EU and by Remainers seems to have swayed Remainers towards Leave; and the sway seems motivated by a desire to uphold and defend democracy than anything else.   I have heard often words akin to – “The vote was Leave and although I voted Remain if that vote is overturned how can any vote we ever make be considered of worth?”    It takes little swing indeed to make the result a truly resounding LEAVE and I would bet good money that such would be the result of a second ref.   As a Leaver therefore I am neither for nor against another vote, merely neutral because it won’t change the result.

Significant as I see it is that in the last year all of the voices in the main have been those of Remainers everywhere.  Yet still that appears not to have impacted opinions towards Remain, quite the reverse.   Thanks Blair and Clegg for much of that.   Neither realise that whatever they say a large percentage will adopt the reverse position merely out of disdain for them.   Once Leave gets its voice again, which Farage’s return to campaigning will ensure, I suspect public opinion may swing even more strongly towards Leave.    Besides, how could we with confidence ever remain in the EU now?   Seeing that we were not truly prepared to walk away there is no question that the EU would take advantage of us if we stayed.   Why not?   So, we would be in the same position as a partner who stays in an abusive relationship; the abuse simply continues and grows.   The Rubicon has been crossed.  One ignores that which we all know is human nature to conclude otherwise.

 

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Ed P]

Wait until the impacts of a hard Brexit are published. Ten years in poverty will gain very few votes!

[Wheels-Of-Fire]

It just wont happen. It didnt happen after the leave vote and its not happening now as we approach the leave date with no deal.

The most I expect is a slight stutter while we sort out the paperwork.

 

[The Duke]

VHM You lost me when you cited the f-+king sun. LMFAO

[Author]

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