[Dave Rice]

It’s Brexit all over again, there is no plan just a smoke screen for why there isn’t. We are being led by resources, not the science.

Meanwhile history is being rewritten and “science” is the scapegoat, not that we know where the science is coming from. That’s a secret.

[Dave Rice]

Just seen this NHS rejects Apple-Google coronavirus app plan. Here we go, our Govt’s track record on getting software right vs the people who’s product it is.

[Ed P]

This is one situation where the Government SHOULD be able to get a system that works as the BBC/ICL team put together the similar pandemic app just a couple of years ago. That one worked like a dream, so the NHSX would have had to deliberately break a working system.

This is one case where I think we need to put aside concerns on personal privacy in the interest of speed. One rumour is that restrictions will only be lifted for those who install the app. (e.g. police asking to see a ‘Green Passport’ on the phone — China/Singapore style). If so, I would be completely happy provided this was introduced under the ‘Emergency Legislation’ that only has a finite life.

[Dave Rice]

Well 99.9% of people are being tracked by their phone anyway, this is a lot less. I understand that Apple and Google have been providing anonymized location data for Govt’s when asked (Asia I believe)? which I don’t have a great deal of worry about either.

[Ed P]

It has been going to the UK Government since April 17th. It is a far more detailed report than this one.

[Ed P]

Just in case anyone misses it, the little bit of propaganda from China hits a lot of key facts on the disease that were ignored by the Us and to some extent the UK. (note the bit about the virus being airborne and the need for masks) :good:

Lego figure animation

[Ed P]

Amazingly little discussion of the Irish five stage exit plan.

Although imo it is silly to put hard dates on the phases, I would hope that when our dithering Government finally gets to grip with the situation that they will realise that the country needs some idea of how the lock down will ease.

Without such detail a lot of businesses will go bust without good reason (e.g. Garden Centres), while others will burn up their hard earned cash in the vain hope that things will change soon. Others will need to recognise that they need to totally reconstruct their business model and get really hard-nosed with their landlords and local councils. (rent & rates) – perhaps even form legally constituted  cartels to do such negotiation.

[Dave Rice]

It’s public transport that concerns me as I will have to use it.

I have some work booked in for the end of May, 2 days that may (hopefully) turn into 6. The first 2 days are removing cameras and WiFi infrastructure from buildings the client has lost the contract for. The extra 4 are hopefully upgrading their existing site with that kit.

I’m considering “PPE” strategies and am coming down to thinking that face covering will be the key, some sort of stretchy bandanna for nose and mouth and my protective specs. This is primarily to stop me touching my mouth, nose and eyes with dirty hands, on which point I think gloves are a total waste of time. Access to washing facilities on both sites isn’t an issue.

Keeping 2 metres apart won’t be a problem, the work is such that having 2 people in the same spot is rarely needed. If the guys need advice on what should be plugged into where we’ll use Whatsapp video messaging on the phones. Having said that I think the key worker has a bloody iThing. Might have to find an old Android phone in the man drawer.

[PlaneMan]

Hangouts Dave. I use it with my brother on his iThings

[Dave Rice]

Cheers Nolan, looks good – I’ll give it a try.

Just trying to get back into “work” mode, it took me 3 hours to do the quote that would normally have taken 1.

[JayCeeDee]

Dave Rice wrote:

I’m considering “PPE” strategies and am coming down to thinking that face covering will be the key, some sort of stretchy bandanna for nose and mouth and my protective specs

I started out using those sort of improvised attempts, but found the biggest problem, being a glasses wearer, was fogging up, both outside, and going into shops from outside. I now have a basic cotton mask that is better, but the wife had one sent from her sister,  ( her OH is in the motor trade and I think she got it from him ). It has 2 valves in it and she finds it a lot easier and less claustrophobic. It’s a thin stretchy cotton/latex material with velcro for fixing at the back of her neck and a metal strip to fashion around her nose.

I think it will become the norm for when things ease out – we can manage to keep 2 metres apart but can’t control what’s in the air in our immediate vicinity. If we can add a barrier, or a disincentive to touching our mouths/eyes in public, it just makes sense.

It’s good to hear there’s still work about. Best of luck. :good:

[Ed P]

Dave, as is so often said, unless you are using N95 masks or possibly PM2.5 (anti-pollen) masks you will gain little personal protection from wearing a mask, but you will protect and give assurance to others. I think mandating that everyone wears masks on public transport, enclosed public spaces will be an important post lockdown measure.

If your own personal protection is important because you are ‘vulnerable’ then get a cloth mask with a filter pocket and add in your own extra filter medium e.g. an HEPA dust filter from a vacuum cleaner or a PM2.5 filter purchased on-line. If your wife is handy with a sewing machine there are patterns for suitable masks on-line (probably the better option given the long lead-time for masks). A valved mask is important to stop fogging if you wear specs, but unfortunately I have not seen any diy patterns for this design.

With respect to cleaning the mask, washing it in bleach solution will fix anything while filters can safely be reconstituted by soaking in 6% hydrogen peroxide for 30 mins. (US research on reusing medical filter masks). The important thing is to assume the mask to be highly contaminated and remove carefully straight into a wash bag, if you want to resuscitate a filter remove it inside the wash bag before dumping into H2O2. Washing your own hands/arms afterwards. I’m sure epidemiologists will say that these measures are inadequate, but what they will do is to cut down the viral load and improve your odds.

An industrial dust mask CAN be upgraded with N95 filters but I personally find these masks to be too large and clumsy to wear for protracted periods, and possibly dangerous if up a ladder.

[Dave Rice]

ED, I’m not at all worried about the mask stopping any virus as I know it won’t. As I said it’s more to stop me touching my face plus if I am asymptomatic sneezing all over others on public transport, there being no reason why we should be near each other on site.

[The Duke]

Google duo, offered the the best picture out of the free voip services and its very straight forward to work,plus cross platform. What’s apps picture quality is poor.

[Ed P]

The principle tenet of science is ‘Peer Review’. Our so-called scientific advisors fail that test completely as the deliberations of the SAGE Cummings group are kept a State Secret and all that emerges are political compromises.

Face mask wearing in public is a prime example. The rest of the world’s scientific advisors say they should be worn, but our ‘scientific’ advisors are more worried about the Government’s poor handling of PPE and do not want to exacerbate the shortages even though cloth and industrial masks are non-competitive.

In this environment it is welcome news that the previous scientific advisor is heading up a competing advisory group to come up with their own advice and challenge that of the Cummings group.

link

[Bob Williams]

Staying on topic, but diverging slightly and musing as I do: how busy is your local area? This occurred to me today as we had to shop, all necessities running out. Went into Louth, wife toured the town looking  for certain items, I went to the butchers and got my carnivore ‘fix’, plus their delicious individual egg custards, to which I could become addicted. SWMBO came back a little cross, having got everything except the dishwasher she likes, although of course the opinion of her Dishwasher (me) was not requested! Only available in one shop, which is closed. Then off to Morrisons for staples. Wearing the masks our lovely daughter made for us, Ed and using the sanitizer I made up from ingredients you previously listed. I think she is missing her one to one teaching, goes in twice a week then has to come home for 14 days, to a 14 yo daughter who is taking online studies and hates missing school.

Town is not as busy as before Covid, but still quite busy, until after around 1:45, when as if they were all subject to some Lemming directive, almost everyone disappeared. Within the space of 20 minutes, town was almost deserted. Our apartment block is about half a mile out of town centre and near the Riverhead, where the Lud comes to the surface after a short underground passage. We walk down there for exercise and it has become very popular, lots of small family groups taking the kids out, dog walkers too. Everyone is very courteous, there are no large groups and we all step aside for each other. There is one part here which   has a tree dedicated to the NHS: children have made a lovely feature, with messages of support on wooden strips, the tree also covered in dedications. (Pic below). I think it will be difficult for any government to misuse and cut NHS funding after this.

Incidentally, what is your prediction for the absolute end of this emergency? I forecast at least 18 months from next month. Pics of the Riverside dedications: town houses are full of rainbows and messages of support for NHS, shop assistants, truckers, you name it. My hope is that these feelings and sentiments, outlive the emergency itself and we become a more caring society.

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[JayCeeDee]

Not sure how long the virus and the immediate after effects are likely to be with us, but I was gladdened by the news that Love Island has been postponed till next year, and who knows, maybe by then, people will have come to realise its’ true insignificance!! :yahoo: :yahoo: Along with other reality programmes of its ilk!! :good:

[Ed P]

I’m not sure if this New Scientist article is paywalled. A shame if it is, as it offers hopes for the future. In case you cannot read it, a very short synopsis is that corona virus cross-overs from animals are relatively frequent. Each tends to be a killer to start but each mutates fairly rapidly towards a seasonal cold variety.

So if we manage to survive this one then probably the next round will not be as bad as the evolutionary pressure on the virus is towards making it as undetectable as possible.

[Ed P]

France apparently had severe Covid-19 cases back in December 2019. Maybe the Chinese have been given a bum-rap! :wacko:

link

[Bob Williams]

Ed P wrote:

France apparently had severe Covid-19 cases back in December 2019. Maybe the Chinese have been given a bum-rap! link

Still a possible Chinese source Ed: this morning I read a Google news report on my phone that it was an airport worker at Charles de Gaulle airport who was the asymptomatic carrier. She gave it to her husband, he contracted pneumonia but recovered. The French health authorities are now looking into her contacts with Chinese travellers/airline staff.

The same report states that the USA may have had cases back in December. The WHO is advising all national health authorities, to check historic samples of “influenza-like” material, for a Covid connection. It also states that there was a cave full of bats in China, all of which were infected. This disease may have a longer history than first thought. 😥 :unsure:

from the BBC Coronavirus Update, not as informative as the Google News I read:

” 11:56
WHO warns more ‘early cases’ could emerge

AFPCopyright: AFP
The World Health Organization has warned that more early cases of coronavirus are likely to be uncovered in countries around the globe.

It comes after a French doctor said he had tested a sample from a patient diagnosed with pneumonia on 27 December last year, and found it was positive for coronavirus.

The development means Covid-19 may have arrived in Europe almost a month earlier than previously thought.

Speaking in Geneva, WHO spokesperson Christian Lindmeier said he was “not surprised” by the news.

He called on other countries to reassess their medical records from late 2019 to help to build a “newer and clearer picture” of the pandemic. “

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.

[Author]

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