Coronavirus, Corona Virus, Covid-19

Coronavirus – 2019-nCoV

Man Made yes or no?

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  • Dont be silly Lee
Viewing 20 posts - 321 through 340 (of 1,205 total)
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  • #40864
    The VFM AddictThe VFM Addict
    Participant
      @thevfmaddict
      Forumite Points: 0

      Iran now admitting the ‘kin obvious.   They are raked with the virus.    Admitting it could be all over Iran.    Iran’s population is north of 82 million.   Its borders are porous.   Here goes the middle east !!!

      _______________________________________________________________________________________

      During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

      #40870
      Bob WilliamsBob Williams
      Participant
        @bullstuff2
        Forumite Points: 0

        WTF is going on. See this. I’ve heard nothing about it. Has anyone else? Might be as the rider posts suggest nothing of concern but any Wuhan links surely raise questions.

        And the fluent speakers of Total Boll***ish take the stand:

        COVID19 is a US bioweapon released in China to halt their Huawei and BRI global advance. The virus was placed (by US proxy) near the Wuhan lab to create a false cover narrative: “China did it.” Bloody obvious, but gullibles are falling for it. “The bigger the lie…

        Joe McCarthy lives – still creating hate in America. And there’s more:

        I think this is just a taste of the hysteria gripping America, spreading to the rest of the world. Look at what happened in Ukraine:

        https://tinyurl.com/t8eatz2

        World is going mad. I refuse to join all this hysteria. Calm, I will be.

        When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
        I'm out.

        #40883
        The VFM AddictThe VFM Addict
        Participant
          @thevfmaddict
          Forumite Points: 0

          I have said earlier in this thread that I doubt this was a bioweapon launched with a vengeance.   But I am not totally closed to the remote possibility that it might have been engineered as such or for research purposes; because such simply cannot be 100% excluded.

          I think that Bob highlights and I agree with him that, there exists an eternal truth.  That truth is that a risk always exists when one keeps an open mind that one’s brains might drop out of that opening.    But there is equally the eternal truth that unless one remains open to a possibility when plainly one still exists one can also fall into error.

          From discussions with many senior clinicians over the years during my working life I learned that most medical misdiagnosis which does not derive of clear negligence on the part of physicians derives entirely of physicians excluding too early that which while extremely remote still remains a possibility.

          Is this an man engineered virus produced for some purpose be it malevolent or benign which then inadvertently found its way beyond a lab?     Almost, but only almost, certainly not.

          _______________________________________________________________________________________

          During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

          #40885
          The VFM AddictThe VFM Addict
          Participant
            @thevfmaddict
            Forumite Points: 0

            A very sobering thought is that South Korea’s rate of the growth in cases is far greater than the rate of growth see even on the Diamond Princess.    In the last twelve hours alone 137 new cases bringing SK’s total to 346.   72 hours ago its total was only 31.   Heaven help them.

            The only upside is that we are likely to get the full data on what is occurring in SK whereas China’s data has been, to be generously polite, a little dubious.   We will learn a lot of valuable information from SK’s bad luck.   They are inadvertently taking one for the team.

            _______________________________________________________________________________________

            During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

            #40886
            The VFM AddictThe VFM Addict
            Participant
              @thevfmaddict
              Forumite Points: 0

              A few quick questions:

              1.  When the virus gets to the UK and takes off do we have sufficient numbers of Police to cope with the public disorder that inevitably develops during the initial panic phase?
              2. As the number of infected individuals rises do we have enough Police to enforce isolation of the infected be that home isolation or by transportation to hospital/government facilities?
              3. Is law and order likely to break down far more in the UK than in other states which have high numbers of law enforcement officers (and that are armed)?

              I am not scaremongering but rather seeking to raise issues that I believe we must all consider when developing our own preparedness.    Going out once the virus hits could very well pose more dangers than from the virus alone.

              _______________________________________________________________________________________

              During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

              #40888
              Ed PEd P
              Participant
                @edps
                Forumite Points: 39

                Thanks to May’s stupidity we probably have insufficient police to cope with things without a public insurrection. (for example many crimes are not investigated because of resources). However if there is a threatened break-down of Law & Order the Government always has the option of declaring martial law zones. I personally think that such an event is extremely small.

                Cutting back to the huge leap in cases in Korea, most are mental health patients and probably in locked wards. It is believed that one or two nurses are super-spreaders.

                Actually SARS cases were in the main due to super-spreaders, and one hope is that covid-19 is similar as this would make containment easier.

                #40889
                The VFM AddictThe VFM Addict
                Participant
                  @thevfmaddict
                  Forumite Points: 0

                  The virus is also beginning to bloom in Italy.   Officials have ordered mass closures including public buildings, schools, restaurants and coffee shops in Lombardy region, Northern Italy, after cases quadrupled.   How many Italians I wonder will decide instead to take advantage of Schengen and attempt to distance themselves from the problem by taking a long holiday elsewhere in the EU?   Such is far easier from Northern Italy than the South.

                  Meanwhile back in Wuhan the ‘recovered’ are now upon discharge from hospital required to self-isolate for a further 14 days and designate where that will be.

                  South Korea has gone from this morning’s (GMT) 346 cases to 433.  There’s still a lot of the day left during which to hit at least 500.

                  That folks are infectious before symptoms (which is now considered by all experts to be the case) means isolating folks once symptoms present is shutting the gate long after the horse has bolted

                  The WHO still believes there is a possibility that the virus can be contained (and probably also that the Easter Bunny and Santa are real).    Anyone here agree with them and any longer believe that this virus is containable?   When the likelihood is that South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Iran as well as Singapore have been seeding the world for weeks while pretty much states fixated solely on travelers incoming from China.

                  The time for folks in the UK to prepare before the panic rush begins is surely very rapidly running out.

                  _______________________________________________________________________________________

                  During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

                  #40890
                  Ed PEd P
                  Participant
                    @edps
                    Forumite Points: 39

                    One reported problem is that the ‘all-clear’ test appears to be inaccurate.

                    People have been given the all-clear for as many as five tests only for the sixth to test positive. The reasons were unclear, one can only surmise that perhaps the method used to incubate/amplify the samples does not work very well for this particular virus. (doesn’t bode well for those released from quarantine, or those deemed as recovered from  covid-19)

                    #40891
                    Bob WilliamsBob Williams
                    Participant
                      @bullstuff2
                      Forumite Points: 0

                      Ed, it may be that the virus is ‘shifting’, its genetic code mutating. By now it certainly has enough human hosts to be at home in our bodies. One thing is absolutely common to all life on Earth: it learns and adapts. Bearing in mind that bacteria, viruses etc. were the earliest forms of life, that means a lot of experience. I.E. ‘that did not work to give us the nutrients to feed and multiply. Let’s try another tactic.’ All life needs to progress, is a suitable environment and nutrients of some form. The (hopefully) recovered and recovering human hosts are now living laboratories.

                      When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
                      I'm out.

                      #40893
                      The VFM AddictThe VFM Addict
                      Participant
                        @thevfmaddict
                        Forumite Points: 0

                        Yes, Bob, there are early reports that the strain in Iran is somewhat different from the original strain.  So mutation does seem to be occurring.    But if this is so then past recoverees might not inform us as well as they might otherwise have done.   The jury is still out.

                        ********************

                        This thread by Kai Kupferschmidt is being lauded by many experts and by many lay journalists.    All concur that that this German journalist has it pretty much right.    The world’s governments must switch right now from a false reliance on the forlorn hope of containment, and which realistically is now impossible for the reasons he states, to preparing to logistically deal with this inevitable pandemic and its consequences; and prepare their populations (psychologically?) for what is to come.

                        _______________________________________________________________________________________

                        During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

                        #40898
                        The VFM AddictThe VFM Addict
                        Participant
                          @thevfmaddict
                          Forumite Points: 0

                          This page I believe is an absolute MUST read.    Please, please read it in full.   Please take it on-board and please share it widely.    Doing so will save lives.   It will also in the long term reduce panic and help people cope psychologically by positive action.

                          _______________________________________________________________________________________

                          During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

                          #40901
                          The VFM AddictThe VFM Addict
                          Participant
                            @thevfmaddict
                            Forumite Points: 0

                            South Korea overnight went to ‘Red’ Alert Level as cases passed 500.  President Moon says next few days critical.    Since then cases have risen to 606 as I post.

                            Turkey has not officially declared any cases but lots of videos being shared on the net from Turkey over the last day or so which make it highly likely it has reached there significantly.

                            Over here HMG has at least come up with a good idea for limiting hospital congestion.    Drive-through testing points where a nurse in full PPE will take swabs.    A brilliant idea meaning there will be less chance of A&E dept’s being clogged up by those who have symptoms but which in reality are caused merely by a cold, normal flu or a low grade upper respiratory tract infection which is not this virus.    WOW someone in government with a brain.   Who would ever have expected that?   But I also note that the BBC news website earlier this morning had a full page about it that amazingly has now been pulled or put in some hard to find place.    Errrrmmmm……..

                            _______________________________________________________________________________________

                            During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

                            #40902
                            Ed PEd P
                            Participant
                              @edps
                              Forumite Points: 39

                              As far as I can see, the BBC have not even indexed anything similar for the (quite useless) BBC web site search.The article ‘never existed’!

                              I’m afraid Mushroom Matt Hancock still has his head up his nether-end and is failing to keep the UK public informed. It looks rather like he is trying to contain panic while he and his mates stock up their larders and med cabinets. There would have been much better low key measures to buy time and get the public used to an emergency situation.

                              Seriously, I think the Government’s strategy of denial is foolish.It would have been better to inform the public early, deal with any low level panic, and let them get bored, rather than suddenly announcing that similar measures to Italy will be sprung on a totally unprepared public.

                              #40903
                              Ed PEd P
                              Participant
                                @edps
                                Forumite Points: 39

                                Details of the scheme were apparently only released to the ‘Conservative’ press i.e. The Mail and Telegraph. (No others appeared on a Google search) Now I REALLY start to wonder if an ultra-right Cummings doctrine has been secretly put into force!

                                Mail link

                                Joking aside, something is required. The latest report from China is that the covid-19 incubation period can be up to 27 days. This implies a whole lot of extra spreaders could already have been released in the UK following their self isolation, and makes any containment close to impossible. link

                                 

                                #40904
                                Bob WilliamsBob Williams
                                Participant
                                  @bullstuff2
                                  Forumite Points: 0

                                  We are fecked. Even the Chinese faced the music eventually, our government has burned the song sheets and sacked the band. I suspect that the USA and EU bureaucrats will do the same. BBC independent? Yer avin a Laff! Gov says jump, BBC Controller says “How high Sir/Madam?”

                                  When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
                                  I'm out.

                                  #40905
                                  The VFM AddictThe VFM Addict
                                  Participant
                                    @thevfmaddict
                                    Forumite Points: 0

                                    The link I posted earlier set out very well what should have been done to prepare the public and mitigate the effects on people psychologically and on businesses logistically.     It made clear how the vital time bought by the initial attempts at containment should have been spend.   But instead most of that breathing time has been squandered; and it wouldn’t surprise me if HMG doubles down and wastes most of what is left also.

                                    Ed, perhaps I was mistaken and the BBC did not post re the Drive Thru’s.   Your search seems to suggest I did.   Perhaps it was the papers I first read about it in.   I always check all front pages just before midnight,  so that could be the case.

                                    Anyway, as I’ve been saying for some time now we should all have been making our own preparations as far as is possible; not least by ensuring we have sufficient food supplies to last a very sustained lock-down.   Plus have sourced at the very least some basic Personal Protective Equipment in case we have no option but to go out.

                                    I consider such basic PPE to include masks, googles, gloves, pocket sized sanitizer gel and hooded wear.     You can usually pick up clear plastic ponchos designed for emergency rainwear use in discount or pound stores and of course they can be rinsed off and wiped down with sanitizer gel on returning home and therefore allowing re-use.   Alternatively normal hoodies can be hot washed.

                                    As yet I am seeing no clear signs in the shops that more than a tiny number are stocking up for a lock-down.   Truly no real sign real of extra food being brought so HMG has clearly done a good job instilling relative apathy.     That means that when the panicdoes start it will be last minute and frantic with folks buying whatever they can buy (in volume) rather than merely what they have rationally worked out that they will need.   In other words by ensuring that there will be last minute panic rather than an earlier considered response.  HMG has guaranteed that shortages in the shops will be even worse.   Once the virus takes off in earnest here and given how infectious this virus is I can well imagine that if the likes of Tesco, Sainsbury’s or Iceland have an asymptomatic infected driver at one of their distribution centres that whole centre could rapidly be non-operational because everyone self-isolates.    With companies pretty much universally working JIT models the supermarkets would be empty of most items especially non-perishables and perishables within 48 to 72 hours.    This is pretty much what happened in Hong Kong.

                                    _______________________________________________________________________________________

                                    During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

                                    #40906
                                    The VFM AddictThe VFM Addict
                                    Participant
                                      @thevfmaddict
                                      Forumite Points: 0

                                      ROFL ………..    Sky News get a political analyst with no medical training whatsoever to comment on how well South Korea will control this virus.   From what I recall this guy couldn’t even arrange for his own children to be kept out of the room when he was broadcasting during the North Korean crisis.     You couldn’t make this up.    Funny isn’t it.   Put the title Professor before a person’s name and some idiots believe that qualifies that person to be an expert on everything.    Bizarre ………….  and foolhardy.

                                      _______________________________________________________________________________________

                                      During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

                                      #40908
                                      Les.Les.
                                      Participant
                                        @oldles
                                        Forumite Points: 42

                                        As you probably all remember, I have mailing list of around 90 mostly old motorcyclists to whom I post out weekly with details of a Saturday morning meeting place, where between 5 and 15 turn up. Anyway, I sent out a special message today and headed it “Time to panic”  posting out VFM’s link from this morning’s message from the US virologists and the link to the daily figures.

                                        Three replies  “Is a pan-demic a new 250cc Honda?”

                                        The second rather more sensible. His wife employed as a pharmacist at our hospital. All very hush hush, nobody is telling them anything. I think she is worried.

                                        The third from a pal with ongoing medical issues.  — I have self isolated myself as far as possible. Just keeping my head down, going out as little as possible.

                                        Have I been foolish on another front? I had a visitor today from the UK who bought some oscilloscopes off me. I did not spot any coughing from him! Must wash his cup thoroughly!

                                        Les.

                                        #40910
                                        The VFM AddictThe VFM Addict
                                        Participant
                                          @thevfmaddict
                                          Forumite Points: 0

                                          Well, Les, probably no need to worry greatly about contact with that single customer at this time although washing his cup thoroughly obviously makes sense.   Even were there 10,000 infected in the UK today it would still be remote that he was one of them.     Two or three months down the road when there could be 10, 20 or 30 million infected individuals in the country and the situation will be very different.

                                          Once this virus is established in the UK then the odds will be greater that not that we will catch it at some point sooner or later.   However, there are huge advantages from catching it much later rather than being ‘an early adopter’….LOL.    Catching it later means that medics will know better what does and does not improve outcomes so that is then on one’s side.  Plus and it is a very big plus, once the huge growth spurt in infections has come and gone there will be a far better chance there will be beds, equipment and medics free to care for one.   Whereas during the earlier peak it will be too much of a lottery as to whether there are and prized best possible care will be by no means guaranteed.   For example, hospitals have a finite number of ventilators and many patients will need a period on one to get through this.    This is truly one occasion where the later one gets to the party the better.   So let’s all do everything we can to be as late as possible getting there, folks.

                                          _______________________________________________________________________________________

                                          During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

                                          #40914
                                          Bob WilliamsBob Williams
                                          Participant
                                            @bullstuff2
                                            Forumite Points: 0

                                            Latest map and associated statistics of Covid-19 activity worldwide:

                                            https://tinyurl.com/uwns6z5

                                            Of course, that’s reported cases.

                                             

                                            When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
                                            I'm out.

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