[Ed P]

No run on shops THIS weekend -it is absolutely foul outside!

The Beeb had an article on self isolation – they basically say use friends/family or home delivery services to cover the 14 (24?) days. If pushed I prefer condensed milk to the thin powdered variety, but a mix of the two is better.

However, imo I’m not sure that the 14 days isolation is all that useful as the experience with the ‘superspreader’ was that he was most infectious during his asymptotic phase (the week before he became ill)! The floating petri dish also raises similar questions, but that experiment looks set to end as the US Government and others state that it is obviously putting the lives of their citizens at risk.

My personal prediction would be that we will quickly move towards requiring mask wearing in public, and the elimination of public gatherings wherever possible. Will matches be played to empty football grounds in March? Based on ‘the BBC TV experiment, an appeal will be made to eliminate family visits and UK vacations as these were the mechanisms by which far-flung locations were hit much more quickly than predicted. I can see the ICL play-book being the one that will be followed.

The latest report from ICL states that the disease roughly doubles each week. We can therefore expect to reach the 100 infected mark in the UK at the beginning of March. Obviously the ST thinks that will be the required political trigger for effective action.

 

[The VFM Addict]

Spot on, Ed.   No symptoms so infect your friends and relatives and then send them shopping for you so that they too can unknowingly and stealthily evangelise this virus.    Cue Private Frazer.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

Looks live Petri Dish 2 might possibly have been inadvertently prepared.  Plus, for good measure possibly also a plane load of 144 Corona Converts to boot.  Oh Happy Crappy Days.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The Duke]

I have two locals (man and wife), she is a travel agent, self employed now, (ex tomas Cook), now they are setting off in two weeks on a 5 star all Inc 2 week cruise of ASIA for two for a total of 1100 quid. Last min deal of course.

You can’t moan at the price, but I think I’d pass.

The wife and kids are going lanzorte on a few weeks (6 I think) I’m worried about that, I wouldn’t be oning own a boat anywhere, nether mind one to frigging aisa, calling at singapore, Hong Kong, tialand, etc.. It’s like a big sailing game of Russian roulette.

Also my main Saturday barmaid is leave for tialand today for 3 weeks. I suspect in a months time, my pub will be ground zero for Wales!

[The VFM Addict]

That’s why you are the owner and they are staff.    You appear the only one with any brains in your establishment…………..

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Richard]

The Duke wrote:

I have two locals (man and wife), she is a travel agent, self employed now, (ex tomas Cook), now they are setting off in two weeks on a 5 star all Inc 2 week cruise of ASIA for two for a total of 1100 quid. Last min deal of course. You can’t moan at the price, but I think I’d pass. The wife and kids are going lanzorte on a few weeks

Your wife’s trip sounds pretty challenging given the health situation. How do you get on with insurance? The last time we travelled was some years back and 17 years after my wife had skin cancer. Insurance was a challenge at 3 times the normal cost. Since then things have only become rather worse, for her and me. I know she would like a break and being ‘looked after’, but the two obvious holiday styles, beach or cities/walking about are not an option. I share your doubts about the Far East. It is not just the risks onboard, it is the travel to get there. My ongoing coughing issue is not going to make anyone happy and forget about insurance.

[Ed P]

Richard, I know you have other ills that cause the coughing but if you are taking blood pressure meds some cause coughing issues even when they are ‘not’ supposed to. After suffering with an irritating dry cough for many years and tried a Greek alphabet of blood pressure meds I finally found a GP willing to listen and try something ‘different’. I was put on an alpha blocker on its own (not normal practice) and never looked back!

[Richard]

Yes, I have also had a few different ones, Ramipril not only caused me a persistent cough, it also caused my wife’s anaphylaxis. I have lost count of the changes I have had somewhere between 4 and 6 different changes.

The cough is probably tied in with sinus and other issues. They had resulted in lung infections in the past. Having a camera stuck into your lungs, without sedation, (long story) is an experience to be enjoyed, but perhaps only once. The story gets stale for the umpteenth time of telling!

[The VFM Addict]

Agree totally with you both re medication coughs especially with ACE Inhibitors in my experience not  only are they simply ‘common’ witrhe ACE inhibitors as studies suggest but are pretty damn likely.   Certainly in the first month or two although they often resolve over time.

As regards your sinus problems and lung infections, Richard, I can’t help but wonder if you have a latent infection of some kind.    Latent infections are typically viruses that never totally resolve.    The virus retreats from one’s immune system to specific sites such that it will not be picked up in normal blood tests only to flare up at some later date.   Often these flare-ups do not cause significant lower respiratory pneumonia of their own right (although on occasion they can) but usually weaken one’s immune system such that one is then vulnerable to a secondary bacterial infection that does cause a significant lower respiratory infection and which does require antibiotics.   The cycle of retreat and flare-ups repeats over time but on a random and entirely unpredictable schedule.

Latent adenoviruses in particular can be harboured in the sinuses and being viruses rather than bacteria are extremely difficult to ever ever clear totally although IIRC some can be eradicated with some of the newer antiviral medications.    Flare-ups of adenoviruses quite commonly result in acute respiratory or gastrointestinal infections.    Given the pattern of symptoms and infections you describe my money would be on such as the likely guilty party.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

Shutting the gate after the horse has bolted………………almost certainly ! 

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The Duke]

@Richard re health is another issue I’m worrying over, but my older girl now 22 (how she got thst old so quick I’ll never know) is going to look after my wife/take any burden off her, as I can’t go. (don’t want to go).

Regarding insurance it’s was nowhere close to what I was expecting, not cheap, but do able.

The whole reason for the trip is our youngest girl (now 12), has never been on a plane, and my wife wants to take her on one before she get any worse.

By the time she came along, we’d decided airposts and kids wasn’t a good mixture. So for the last 15 years we’ve driven to Europe, first camping, and as we grew, rented large caravans, then eventually, the last two trips rented people’s holiday let’s etc.

Which is a fantastic way to holiday. Point your far in a direction, open the Home Away app, and book somthing for a few days that’s about 5 hours away. A few days later either stay longer or ponit the car in another direction. Rince and repeat for 3 or 4 weeks. Never get board.

We do always have a main destination booked for a week or two. Tho we found we didn’t like two weeks anywhere, so we cut it to two maid destinations a week each.

It’s an adventure with a holiday in the centre. Looks like my next hol is going to be Australia next winter, as my sown is there. But it will be a week with him in his place, then rent a car for two weeks and cross then an adventure up the east coast.

@VFM thanks. I’ll take that 👍

[The VFM Addict]

The Petri Dish ( i.e. the Diamond Princess) numbers explode again.    99, yes, 99, new positives meaning there are now 454 positives.    WTF are you doing Japan?    Empty this boat ASAP.

Can’t help but feel though that such numbers are child’s play compared to what London Underground could produce in a single rush hour once it is fully here.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

BTW despite all of North Korea’s bad points it has a 30 day quarantine period for suspected Covid-19 infections not the stupidly short 14 days most states have.   30 days seems about the right time to me.

Returning back to the Diamond Princess note that one ship has almost as many in a day as China are reporting they are having in the whole of China a day outside Hubei.    Yeah.. right !!!

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

As far back as 2005 it was found that the standard anti-malarial drug Chloroquine Phosphate, due to its mode of action, appeared to be a potent inhibitor of the original SARS virus in primates.   See here.

This led many to suspect that it might also be of some use in the fight against SARS-CoV2 the virus that causes Covid-19.    Well, early clinical usage has provided enough evidence for it within the last couple of hours be recommend as part of the standard package for fighting SARS-CoV2.    A word of caution; there is no reason to consider it a total cure as such.   Rather it seems to inhibit the virus enough to give patients’ own immune systems a far better chance of winning the battle.   Fingers crossed folks.

Ed, it seems my earlier PM to you was on the right track.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Ed P]

Unfortunately anti-malarials do not agree with me. Chloroquine wasn’t as bad as others but made my eyesight go ‘wobbly’. In the end I had to go with sulphonamide tablets as a standby if ever cerebral malaria hit – thankfully it never did.

Artemisinin wasn’t around in the West at the time I needed it so I have never tried it. As this latter is the Chinese go-to for cerebral malaria I wonder if they have tried it against covid-19.

[The VFM Addict]

I wasn’t familiar with Artemisinin so had to do a little research.   Its mode of action against the malaria parasite is very different from that of Chloroquine.   Therefore it seems unlikely it would have the same incidental effect on ACE2 receptors that Chloroquine has and which appears almost by chance to be antagonistic to SARS-CoV2 binding at those receptors.

I expect you may have read about ACE2 receptors being the attack vector for SARS- CoV2.    Usually the topic crops up during the argument that because the Far East races have more ACE2 receptors than other races Covid-19 death rates may be higher in those races than we would see in other races.   I’m not wholly convinced by that argument because higher numbers of ACE2 receptors are not usually of significant import in most other areas of medicine.   However, only time will tell as this pandemic blossoms.

In your case, using Chloroquine early during an infection or suspected infection doesn’t seem appropriate.  But were you ever critical due to Covid-19 then Chloroquine’s side effects, no matter how bad they might be, would probably be better than simply letting the Grime Reaper have his way.   A fighting chance last resort weapon, a bit like calling friendly fire down on your own position despite its risks, is surely better I would argue than just waiting to be fatally overrun.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

Anyone interested in the actual pathology of Covid-19 will find this latest piece from the Lancet enlightening.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[The VFM Addict]

Reviewing the Lancet piece one sees that Lymphopenia is a common manifestation of Covid-19 but the authors do not comment on the likely cause of such.    Is Covid-19 directly attacking one’s immune system resulting in this lower than normal level of  white blood cells to fight the virus?   Or were patients’ immune systems always already severely compromised prior to infection.   However, such is probably academic.   Either way it remains that these patients’ immune systems was outgunned  and less able to put up a fight.   Inflammation of the lower respiratory tract develops without adequate check.

I note that the use of Chloroquine had not been routine.  However, as it is now known it impedes progression of the virus to some degree antagonistically interfering with the ACE2 receptor attack vector of the virus;  it may well be that Chloroquine will in many cases turn out to be the critical ‘leveller’.   Meaning it compromises the pathological potential of the virus to such a degree as to allow the patient’s compromised immune system to fight on more equal terms.

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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

[Ed P]

Did you manage to buy your chloroquine? Out of interest I looked on line and Lloyds Pharmacy stated it was prescription only!

[Ed P]

To an extent it would not surprise me to see that chloroquine has been put back on the prescription list. As an anti-malarial it has been just about useless since the mid 1980s. Any one travelling to a malarial zone needs advice on the best prophylactic for the area (unfortunately not an area of expertise for most UK advisors!)

[Author]

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