After Manchester Terrorist its London Again

I watched this unfold from around 11.30 last night. It’s the sort of thing that you can’t prevent without having already got eyes on the doers. But damn, they were dealt with quickly and efficiently, despite ( or because ) wearing dummy bomb vests!!

After that, on the BBC News Channel, it was a case of having somebody recount what you were watching on the screen. It was almost like they had “Agency” reporters, who suddenly found they had to talk a lot. Maybe I found this a little irritating because I grew up with the the likes of John Snow, Trevor McDonald, Michael Nicholson etc.

I realise alcohol was a huge factor, but the reaction and the language, picked up by Mobile phone footage in the bars and clubs, to the Police trying to make people safe was astounding. Again, the BBC was a little lacking in running their 10 second filter delay, as you could hear drunk voices calling the Police “C**ts”. Unbelievable.

I heard her piece and totally understand why that one came over the way that it did, ( adrenaline can be a life-saver, but the immediate after-effects can be a b*tch ). I was referring more to “set pieces to camera” from the barriers.

It seemed that where we could see what was going on behind the journalist doing his piece, eg the column of members of the public coming down the road with their hands on their heads, took it on board, and then had the journalist finally interrupt his spiel and then spend several minutes breathlessly explaining that members of the public were coming down the road with their hands on their heads. You would have expected the cameraman to update the journalist as he saw something going on. Maybe I expect better quality. It just seems the B team were out last night – and this was three hours after the start.

The Tories are wondering why their lead is narrowing. It’s the personal attacks on Corbyn and general negative campaigning IMO.

Theresa May has nowhere to hide on this one, being Home Secretary and then PM for so long. It’s happening on her watch.

Cheap shot by Boris.

Years ago I had a mate, wouldn’t see him as much as I’d like to as he was a worker for MSF, he came from a very rich nigerian family. There were government ties. One day he went to see extend family in the nether regions of nigeria, to give them information, money and help. They held him hostage for 10 months!!!! They demanded less money than he had set aside to help them!  At the time it was reported by the BBC that they’d killed him, and I was amazed to see him in Newport, buying a mobile.

I was told that he was killed by a IED trying to help a child. I haven’t seen him yet but until the day I die, I won’t believe he’s dead.

The point is, the good will always win.

Don’t mess with the british, we will fight until there is nothing left. We will dig deep and suffer, never quit.

I’m Welsh as can be, when it comes to rugby I’m passionate, ‘hate’ the English, but with stuff like this, we are one.

Let’s make it clear – all armed police officers in the UK are volunteers and ‘yes’ if they kill someone they are subject to incredible pressure and scrutiny by the law / the IPCC / their own bosses / and most of all by the public. Just ask, as it was muted in the Mets a few years ago, that all their armed officers ‘downed tools’ when a PC who shot a ‘suspect’ was charged with murder but cleared by the jury. Put that in context of what happened both in London x 2 and Manchester in the past few days – where would we be?

A very simple sum – 20K extra policemen/women on the streets will not stop this type of event – how could 4 (10 even) officers stop a van doing what it did on the bridges?  They can’t. Today it was said on TV that to keep surveillance on one suspect takes 32 ‘spooks’, how many suspects do we have?  20K Officers – 4 officers/24hrs coverage = 5000 extra officers on duty at any one day – excluding sickness, leave, court, courses et al. Spread the 5ooo out over the forces in the UK – 43 as of March 2013 = 116 Officers / Force /day – but that excludes the possibility that there would be a natural bias towards the big conurbations – some areas there will be more in some areas and less in others.

Unfortunately this type of terrorism is also cultural and ethnically based – generally the UK police are largely white whereas what I have seen of recent Islamic terrorists (if that is the correct word) are not – it would be very difficult for the general police to infiltrate such terrorist groups – at least in Ireland we tended to look like them!

What is the answer – I don’t know  but more police on the street is not one.  We have PCSOs on the streets – plastic plods – why – it gives the public reassurance that the police are around to protect them!!!! No tbey are there to show the flag at a lower rate of pay than the ‘proper’ officer – you can con the public most of the time …. !!

dwynnehugh wrote:

Let’s make it clear – all armed police officers in the UK are volunteers and ‘yes’ if they kill someone they are subject to incredible pressure and scrutiny by the law / the IPCC / their own bosses / and most of all by the public. Just ask, as it was muted in the Mets a few years ago, that all their armed officers ‘downed tools’ when a PC who shot a ‘suspect’ was charged with murder but cleared by the jury. Put that in context of what happened both in London x 2 and Manchester in the past few days – where would we be? A very simple sum – 20K extra policemen/women on the streets will not stop this type of event – how could 4 (10 even) officers stop a van doing what it did on the bridges? They can’t. Today it was said on TV that to keep surveillance on one suspect takes 32 ‘spooks’, how many suspects do we have? 20K Officers – 4 officers/24hrs coverage = 5000 extra officers on duty at any one day – excluding sickness, leave, court, courses et al. Spread the 5ooo out over the forces in the UK – 43 as of March 2013 = 116 Officers / Force /day – but that excludes the possibility that there would be a natural bias towards the big conurbations – some areas there will be more in some areas and less in others. Unfortunately this type of terrorism is also cultural and ethnically based – generally the UK police are largely white whereas what I have seen of recent Islamic terrorists (if that is the correct word) are not – it would be very difficult for the general police to infiltrate such terrorist groups – at least in Ireland we tended to look like them! What is the answer – I don’t know but more police on the street is not one. We have PCSOs on the streets – plastic plods – why – it gives the public reassurance that the police are around to protect them!!!! No tbey are there to show the flag at a lower rate of pay than the ‘proper’ officer – you can con the public most of the time …. !!

That was my point wrapped up in a much clearer package. About the only thing that stops a vehicle used as a murder weapon is a bazooka. One on every corner might be effective but affordable? No Practical? No. Your point about the ethnicity of the police is well taken, however, efforts to cure that one has proved challenging with some of the ingrained attitudes on both sides. So called institutional racism exists on all sides and needs to be smashed out of existance.

Dixon of Dock Green policing died a long time ago, now it is the age of (hopefully) intelligence led operations. It appears that the current cell was known about but not the timing, hence the swoops after the event. There is some understandable public doubt about exactly what was known. Some of today’s reports are colourful and perhaps alarming. Claims of radical internet viewing and propaganda film shows used to recruit and motivate the feeble minded may be a play for the popular audience. Tails of the suspects trying to round up child converts to their cause are likewise ‘colourful noise’. Perhaps they were missed when they were claimed to be reported to the police.

However, under exactly what law could the police have arrested them and under exactly what law could they have been charged? More to the point, they would have been out on the strets minutes later, with an enlarged chip on their shoulder and an enhanced ability to scoff at the law, perhaps a beefed up hate speech law, applied to all, including internet carriers? Are the current actions close enough to treason to be treated as such? Is this a topic for informed discussion, not the usual stupid knee jerk reactions for some.

All hate speech should be barred, not just hate speech from one group. Whether anti Semitic, anti Muslim anti Christian or anti whatever and, more to the point wherever. Just try selling Mein Kampf and the like in many countries.

Perhaps we should be more like Europe after all?

Chamberlain tried appeasement and negotiation and that went really well when used with someone motivated by little more than ego and hate… oh hang on a minute I am told a war swiftly followed. Was that more false history?

Walk softly and carry a big stick works only up to a point. Sometimes the big stick has to be used and used effectively. Since some are enthral to such as Putin and North Korea, perhaps we should set up some re-education camps just as they do and pack off all malcontents to those places of re-education.

Return tickets may not be required.

Barriers have gone up Evening Standard

Yes Ed, the rift in the GCC area, (is the GCC still going?) is ‘interesting’. Bahrain and Qatar have royal blood and feud links and have fought in recent times over various bits of the scrubby islands in the brackish waters. I would agree with your broad figure for the population of real Qatar people. The defence forces used to be staffed by Jordanians at some levels and other third nations at others. Bahrain used to be a Saudi playground, the UAE more or less did its things with the various states vying with each other while Qatar, was, well Qatar. Its recent history of playing various parties off against each other may have backfired, young princes have history of going a bit wild given the chance. Many simply killed themselves in accidents – some families banned them from driving due to the high attrition rate. Qatar is connected by land, yet for years it never quite made the grade it aspired to reach, I guess it overplayed a hand in the poker game that is Gulf politics. Or more likely severely pissed off someone who they should not have annoyed. I have not seen too much outwash yet, suggesting some are sitting on their hands to see what comes out in the muddy waters. Investments are one thing, operational control is another. Nothing out there is ever quite what it might appear, I guess if push comes to shove we can always go for US shale gas.