Back to the (70\\\'s) Future!

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  • #7193
    Bob WilliamsBob Williams
    Participant
      @bullstuff2
      Forumite Points: 0

      Labour latest manifesto leak:

      https://tinyurl.com/mb9c9ze

      Now the difference is clear. Back to the days of lock outs, strikes, mass pickets, “I’m allright Jack.” Or continuing cuts in services, old people uncared for, zero hours contracts, shady banks and employers getting away with paying peanuts, then being surprised to find they are employing monkeys. Somebody help us all!

      Particularly amusing was 1 – Corbyn wanting to be “extremely cautious” about using Trident nuclear weapons. (No, Theresa, just push the red button, let’s see what happens.) ?

      2 – Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers. :whistle:   4,000 will cover a couple of dozen London streets. What next?

      The British people are akin to a crowd watching a very long game of tennis, between two morons who don’t even care about rules of the game.

      When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
      I'm out.

      #7196
      doctoryorkiedoctoryorkie
      Participant
        @doctoryorkie
        Forumite Points: 2

        I think they need help from Bill Somebody again.

        Any clown can promise the Moon on a stick. Paying for it is the hard part.

        Laptop T420 i5 8GB SSD 2x Spinners Optimus GFX
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        #7197
        The DukeThe Duke
        Participant
          @sgb101
          Forumite Points: 5

          I’m a fan of taking all the infrastructure back in to stat ownership, but I’d love to hear how the hell he thinks he could do it.

          I actually like his proposals, I just think there is less than  no chance f him being able to do any of it.

          It could be fun though. If he was to win, big if, it could be the last labour government for a generation or two.

          I’m all for letting it burn. That’s why I wanted Scotland to vote for independence, just so I could watch.

          Maybe it is time for a major shake up in the uk. As a tory government will be more of the same. The safe but boring bet.

          Either way, I can’t see labour winning anything. Had 24 hours or so of live TV over the last two days, and it seems the media hate labour.

          And my god, how do normal folk put up with live TV. It is not a fun experience.

          Luckily I had a few films on my phone,and oh my ‘the grimsby brothers’  is one funny film. Not usually a fan of his movies, but this one had me laughing all the way through.

          #7202
          Ed PEd P
          Participant
            @edps
            Forumite Points: 39

            Having suffered for years under the disastrous effects of the privatization of British Rail (artificial division of responsibilities, rail services and even train services) capped by years of poxy Southern Rail mismanagement I am all for renationalising the Railway as it was never this bad under British Rail even in the Winter of Discontent.

            #7209
            JasonJason
            Participant
              @jason
              Forumite Points: 0

              Well, at least they’re offering something noticeably different to the Tories. There’s a real choice. That’s not to say I’ll be voting Labour, but the (leaked) manifesto has a lot of very popular pledges, and at least some of them seem to have viable funding behind them. People wanted a real choice. I’d say they’ve got it. Will they take it? No.

              My prediction is a 75-seat Tory majority.

              Network Rail is already back in public ownership. Privatisation there was a miserable failure, though that’s always brushed under the carpet. The infrastructure is already ours. All that isn’t is the right to run trains on it. Given the massive subsidies we already pay to the franchise operators, it really isn’t much of a stretch to believe that having the whole lot state-owned wouldn’t make much difference in terms of public cost. The extra expense would be offset by pocketing the rail fares.

              #7210
              RichardRichard
              Participant
                @sawboman
                Forumite Points: 16

                Just how large has the increase in passenger numbers been in the last few years?

                Shooting the RMT leadership might help perhaps along with some of the management of the train company. However, back in the days of state run BR (Broken Rail?) which some so revere, when there were no trains during the day for the fourth weekday running (or not running?). I went to the administration office and warned them that I was about to use the rudest possible word for Broken Rail staff to hear. One or two huffed and puffed and tried to stop me, but they were too stunned when I spoke the terrible, evil word,

                ‘maintenance’ 

                in their hallowed sanctum.

                Stunned silence fell as I left the station master’s holy chamber with the terrible sound of that word ringing round the scene of their crimes against transport.

                Of course the real value of all these fighting drivers was shown in the case of the Croydon tram disaster, where there was no automation to control the wetware in the front.

                I thank god I  will never again use trains and their work if the feel like it staff.

                #7215
                Ed PEd P
                Participant
                  @edps
                  Forumite Points: 39

                  Just Google ‘British Rail privatisation’. Virtually every entry examines in detail just why it was a disastrous failure by John Major. Not one deals with its successes (for very good reason). I rest my case.

                  There is one dated paper in 2002 that fairly dispassionately lists the initial problems of privatisation, and other than Network Rail nothing has changed for the better and much for the worse (especially Southern Rail and inflationary ticket prices). It is quite a good read, and I believe historically accurate.

                  #7224
                  Bob WilliamsBob Williams
                  Participant
                    @bullstuff2
                    Forumite Points: 0

                    Whenever nationalisation of any large infrastructure body has ocurred in GB, the result has been a slow but steady deterioration in quality of service.

                    This has many causes: after some years, governments eventually realising that they can get away with whittling away at investment, or investing in the wrong features which bring either no advantages, often great disadvantages. Rogue Union leaders who lead their members to believe that they can have unfeasably large pay increases, stupidly short working hours, or other benefits. Strikes and industrial chaos follow. There are organisations which have become so large, that even when privatised, they are regarded as untouchable, until public and other business pressure causes the government to bite the bullet, split them up and make them really work for a living. Witness the painful separation of Openreach from BT, which is now shedding jobs worldwide and looking to recruit more engineers, in part to replace the ones lost to Openreach.

                    It is a fact that, by and large, Private Enterprise invests and innovates, it has to in order to please shareholders and make a profit. Nationalisation may start with hope and expectation for the future, but in time it all sinks into lower efficiency and mismanagement.

                    If Corbyn was to form a government and attempt the nationalisation of all the bodies in the Labour manifesto, this country would sink into a pile of debt worse than any ever known. There are lessons from 1947 to be learned: this comes from the “Horse’s Mouth”  otherwise known as the Socialist Party of Great Britain –     https://tinyurl.com/kerqvx9     – from 1947/48.

                    Reading those 3 pages (download the PDF, it is worth a read at leisure) will demonstrate what nationalisation cost a war-weary UK, having already ben forced to mortgage the country’s future by paying off the massive expenses of the worst of all wars, the Labour government borrowed even more in order to compensate shareholders and owners. In some cases, even employees. The sums are astronomical for the time: translated by 70 years of inflation and the infrastructure costs of 2017, they would run into the £trillions. Just as in 1947, one must ak, ‘Where will this money come from?’

                    Taxation, says Corbyn. Soak The Rich, the old Labour chestnut. And The Rich will respond by taking out their wealth and going to be The Rich somewhere else. And the old familiar see-saw of left-right politics goes on and on, with no one able to look at the long game or contemplate any form of thoughtful middle ground.

                    When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
                    I'm out.

                    #7227
                    RichardRichard
                    Participant
                      @sawboman
                      Forumite Points: 16

                      Just Google ‘British Rail privatisation’. Virtually every entry examines in detail just why it was a disastrous failure by John Major. Not one deals with its successes (for very good reason). I rest my case. There is one dated paper in 2002 that fairly dispassionately lists the initial problems of privatisation, and other than Network Rail nothing has changed for the better and much for the worse (especially Southern Rail and inflationary ticket prices). It is quite a good read, and I believe historically accurate.

                      The problems of our broken railways run far deeper than any partisan studies. Since the mistake was made to nationalise them after they successfully got us through the war. The leadership of one side needs to keep as many bodies in the industry as it can, because from bodies comes their own strength. So years of wasted ‘investment’ on ever more complex and costly to maintain steam systems was fiercely maintained. The APT was ‘blacked as it did not have the space for a full compliment of crew sust like the steam engines of yore, sorry the day before. The only issue of safety that ASLEF and the RMT are worried about are their own union membership numbers. Southern. like all rail companies, (whether government owned or not) needs the correct staffing levels, not to be a pensioners club. Ticket offices are another dumb battle ground, with ever fewer passengers paying cash at a ticket window why ar they needed? Because they need lots of expensive staff to sit round doing nothing very much. Just look at the ways that other countries run their railways.

                      Should tracks and operation have been split? Probably not, they wroked better when part of the pre broken rail fiasco. Did they even work joined up in broken rail? No.

                      Anyone remember the death star delivery service operated by BR? Oops that should have been red star next day service. The one that took 3 weeks to deliver – because a consignment was accepted for an place with a listed but non operational station and BR were too dumb to deliver by a vehicle.

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