Toshiba about to go bust?

Forumite Members General Topics Other Stuff Toshiba about to go bust?

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #6096
    JasonJason
    Participant
      @jason
      Forumite Points: 0
      #6097
      RichardRichard
      Participant
        @sawboman
        Forumite Points: 16

        Yes, it is an unholy mess. Westinghouse have a fair bit to answer for and there is mutter in some quarters that fraud or dishonest dealing might also be about to come to light around that hopeless operation. A fire sale of some active and reliable operations looks likely, with some other well known names about to be knocked out to whosoever will bid.

        Richard

        #6098
        Ed PEd P
        Participant
          @edps
          Forumite Points: 39

          I would be shocked if failure of a subsidiary brought down the whole structure. However it would not surprise me for the troubled construction arm to be severed away from the overall Corporate structure and restructured. I don’t think only Westinghouse is in trouble, but no doubt we will hear more later today as I think US financial regulators are more scrupulous about revealing all contingent aspects.

          #6099
          The VFM AddictThe VFM Addict
          Participant
            @thevfmaddict
            Forumite Points: 0

            In the late 1980’s and early 1990’s two companies had the lion’s share of the desktop and laptop computer markets.   Compaq was by far the king of the desktop market  and Toshiba the king of the laptop arena.     Oh how the mighty have and are falling although Toshiba also had its fingers in many other consumer pies.

            In the modern world truly wide diversification is key, the Koreans have learnt that from looking at the most diverse of Japanese players – Hitachi.

             

             

             

            _______________________________________________________________________________________

            During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.

            #6101
            RichardRichard
            Participant
              @sawboman
              Forumite Points: 16

              The Japanese way of working has some curious effects. I knew one sales person who ended you tendering for an entire bridge building contract. He had to go to a (Japanese) competitor for much of the work, but his lot had one factory on short time and really needed a good contract to sell the lanterns for street lights. He won the contract and his light maker was kept in work.

              Landis+Gyr is one on the seller’s list.

              #6103
              Dave RiceDave Rice
              Participant
                @ricedg
                Forumite Points: 7

                I’m not sure diversification is the key, that after all is what Toshiba did. And Tesco. In fact Tesco couldn’t make their core business work outside of their home geographical area.

                Many others are going back to their core competencies. Sometimes you think why on earth did X buy Y?

                #6108
                RichardRichard
                Participant
                  @sawboman
                  Forumite Points: 16

                  Dave, I blame fashion. Many of the head Honshu maybe male and of an age when fashion is perhaps not the first thing on their mind. However, as soon as they believe that others are buying into the diversification game they jump on the band wagon.  Then they become suckers for the first pile of junk that comes along. It is not always junk often they simply over pay or find that selling lemons is not the same as say making silicon chips, even if you did use the chips in some other product. My old lot tried to put Steptoe to shame. They bought up a range of companies stacked out with just over the hill technology that the previous owners could not make pay. In some cases I advised not to buy, but they went ahead anyway. Of course they could have bought today’s tech for half the price using 25% of the power and doing twice ~ six times  the throughput. No wonder they wreaked the company. Shiny knobs were all the range one time, even if they did not know what the knobs did or why they wanted them.

                  #6113
                  JasonJason
                  Participant
                    @jason
                    Forumite Points: 0

                    Shiny knobs. We talking about the products or the bosses?

                    #6116
                    RichardRichard
                    Participant
                      @sawboman
                      Forumite Points: 16

                      Shiny knobs. We talking about the products or the bosses?

                      Well now you come to mention it, they were interested in shiny for the sake of shiny, without knowing what they did, many clearly were shiny knobs to boot. They all got their bonuses utill the river ran dry and we all got the shaft.

                      #6139
                      Ed PEd P
                      Participant
                        @edps
                        Forumite Points: 39

                        In Korea its the Chaebol thing – neopotism runs rife in Korean cultures. The original owner will buy up another business (say an airline) then give it to his brother to manage, and so on. The problem is of course that neopotism+deference sometimes brings business disasters.

                        In Japan, like Korea dereference like Korea is a strong cultural ethos. Japan does however have a different business model, not one I’m too familiar with but it is based on a hierarchy, I did however work with a number of Japanese and Japanese teams on major construction projects, and while hierarchies are good for building consensus their weak point is deference to someone perceived as stronger/wiser etc. This deference is a major problem when the ‘wise one’ ain’t so wise!

                        #6140
                        RichardRichard
                        Participant
                          @sawboman
                          Forumite Points: 16

                          Ed is very correct, but the key is consensus. You must build a consensus before going to a meeting, let everyone know what is wanted and why it is such a good idea, get the whole team, or if necessary the whole company talking the same way and the action will emerge at the inevitable (rubber stamp)  meeting. However, the chop will always be used by the ‘key man’.

                          This can have odd effects, the most dangerous commands and passwords for those commands will be held by the ‘key man’. Then the same password and commands will be used by  the juniors who know the work. Security audits are just not an easy concept to sell in such cases.

                          However, unless you are Japanese you will never unravel the concepts under which they operate. I believe that Toshiba’s concept may have been right, the execution was seriously flawed. Westinghouse was a disaster with huge but not fully known financial holes into which Toshiba has been tipped.

                          Will they survive? How much will they have to put in to fill the holes? I do not know, but it will be a hugely damaging culture shock.

                          #6148
                          LouisLouis
                          Participant
                            @thebishopp
                            Forumite Points: 0

                            I’m not sure diversification is to blame, more diversification without proper coherency between products/services. Look at the sewage company (can’t remember the name) that does fibre optic and cctv stuff too in the UK – at first glance, they are nothing alike, but when you learn that the heavy duty cabling is run underground, there’s the link. It actually makes sense. Toshiba – electronics, into nuclear power? I sort of see the paper logic, with electricity and power generation, but how does it link business-wise? Diversification is good, but wildly disconnected things don’t work very well. There should be some sort of viable interconnectivity, surely?

                            #6170
                            Bob WilliamsBob Williams
                            Participant
                              @bullstuff2
                              Forumite Points: 0

                              I did however work with a number of Japanese and Japanese teams on major construction projects, and while hierarchies are good for building consensus their weak point is deference to someone perceived as stronger/wiser etc. This deference is a major problem when the ‘wise one’ ain’t so wise!

                              Ed I am reminded of these words by <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>Tobias Smollett</span>:     https://tinyurl.com/k69r6hq   – quite a character –

                              “Some folks are wise, some are otherwise.”

                              When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
                              I'm out.

                            Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
                            • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.