Mortgage repayments

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  • #5942
    tadkatadka
    Participant
      @tadka
      Forumite Points: 0

      I know some of you here will have some experience and understanding of this.

      Over a year ago I borrowed £91,400.

      In the first year I paid £5,582 of which £4,077 was interest and £1,505 was taken off the amount borrowed, if understand this correctly.

      So if I am paying off £1,505 a year that’s comes to £37,625 in 25 years.

      And that is a big deficit.

      How does it work? I can’t suss it out…

      #5944
      DrezhaDrezha
      Participant
        @drezha
        Forumite Points: 0

        If it’s a standard repayment mortgage, as you pay more off, the interest gets less each and your payments will end up being more of the capital than interest.

        So year 1, you might be paying £500 a month say – £400 covers the interest, £100 towards capital. Towards the end of the mortgage, your £500 might be £100 interest, £400 towards the capital.

         

        You can view it using a mortgage amortisation calculator. Here’s a calculator that will show how it declines over time. My mortgage firm also provided me with a sheet showing the repayment schedule and that showed how the monthly payment was split between capital and interest.

        "Everything looks interesting until you do it. Then you find it’s just another job" - Terry Pratchett

        #5945
        blacklion1725blacklion1725
        Participant
          @blacklion1725
          Forumite Points: 2

          If you are on a standard repayment mortgage it is structured so the payments in theory stay the same for the full term. This means that to start you pay much more interest than capital, and towards the end you pay much more capital than interest (as the overall sum owed decreases).

          Unless you have been badly mugged it is normal – you pay a much higher proportion of interest in the early part of the loan.

          In practice it is likely you will remortgage more than once and hopefully repay early – but the initial payments are based on the same payment every month for the full term of the mortgage/

          #5946
          dwynnehughdwynnehugh
          Participant
            @dwynnehugh
            Forumite Points: 0

            In the early years of a mortgage you will be paying off the interest charges mainly, then as time passes you will start paying off more and more of the capital borrowed.  At least that what happened to us.

            The more you meet people the more you understand why Noah took animals instead of humans

            #5949
            tadkatadka
            Participant
              @tadka
              Forumite Points: 0

              God this is doing my head in  🙂

              If there was no remortgage I understand that the repayments would remain the same but the interest deduction would grow smaller every month while the actual mortgage deduction would grow bigger.

              But if I remortgage every 2 years does that not basically put me back to square one every two years only with a lesser amount? Total monthly repayments being less (hopefully) due to a lesser amount owed and smaller mortgage interest % (hopefully) due to better LTV but 3/4 of the monthly repayment still being interest and only 1/4 of it being the actual repayment.

              There has to be something here I am missing   :scratch:

              #5952
              Dave RiceDave Rice
              Participant
                @ricedg
                Forumite Points: 7

                Depends if you start the 25 years again or keep the term end date as it is.

                If you start again then you’ll be paying for 27 years, so the monthly amount may be less but you’re paying 24 more of them.

                If you keep the term the same you’ll have only 23 years to pay off the amount so the monthly payments would need to be bigger.

                I remortgaged twice when moving home, but only “started again” with the additional amount, so I had 3 mortgage end dates. That may only have been possible as the first two were interest only endowments – boy did we get burned badly.

                I still have the original illustration for the first. Mortgage £17k, endowment would pay out £35k after 25 years. I think it managed £12k. The other one was even worse. A lot of the third (repayment) mortgage went to try and cover the shortfalls and we did over pay for years after the crash, but a large chunk of my redundancy went to pay it off.

                #5954
                Ed PEd P
                Participant
                  @edps
                  Forumite Points: 39

                  If you use a mortgage broker the position can even be worse than that outlined as they take their pound of flesh very early on.

                  The really bad situation comes for those who have an interest only mortgage as they can easily finish with nothing just as they are retiring. They take a huge gamble that the value of the property will rise sufficiently to pay off what they owe and leave enough to downsize. Sadly, those who took that gamble 30 years ago have been very badly burned and may even owe money as their mortgage matures.

                  #5960
                  tadkatadka
                  Participant
                    @tadka
                    Forumite Points: 0

                    If you keep the term the same you’ll have only 23 years to pay off the amount so the monthly payments would need to be bigger.  

                    That seems logical. But then wouldn’t that make remortgaging counter… productive? I thought the whole idea of remortgaging was to bring the repayment amount down. My repayments at the moment are £507 a month. But when I remortgage with my current bank it will be £425. And there are lots of banks on Money Saving Expert website mortgage finder that would be £400, even with £0 set up fees. Of course it is not guaranteed they would approve a mortgage on my property. I was under the impression that my mortgage repayments will just keep going down every time I remortgage. Does that mean that the only reason my repayments are going down is because I was a first time buyer with just a 5% downpayment and if I keep remortgaging they will start going up?

                    #5962
                    SpedleySpedley
                    Participant
                      @spedley
                      Forumite Points: 2

                      By remortgage do you mean ‘take a new mortgage deal’?  I’ve just signed up to a 10 year fixed rate because my previous mortgage has ended and I would be put onto the standard, higher rate.

                      I don’t have a new mortgage but just a new fixed term agreement on how I will pay it so the rates are lower than the standard rates.  Everything else stays the same.

                      If so then you will probably pay less money each month but you are just paying less interest and not affecting the repayment of the loan.

                      i7 4790s / 8GB / 480GB SSD / GTX 980 / 34" UltraWide : i3 4170 / 8GB / 480GB SSD / GTX 770 / 24" Samsung : i3 4130 / 8GB / 500GB Spinner / GTX 1050 / 23" Acer : Q9550 / 8GB / 1TB Spinner / GTX 580 / 22" Acer : i7 720QM / 8GB / 1TB+2TB+500GB Spinners (server) : i5 4570 / 8GB / 60GB SSD / 1TB / GeForce 210 / 22" Dell It's getting warm in here!

                      #5969
                      RichardRichard
                      Participant
                        @sawboman
                        Forumite Points: 16

                        Many people do not understand the way a mortgage works and it can appear daunting to try to find out. What shocked me a few years back was a chap who worked for me. His payments had been set wrongly and he had over paid for several years. The company wrote to him saying they could return the over payment or it would shorten the life of the loan by 7 years. His wife decided they should have a holiday and keep paying the interest for the extra 7 years. I did everything I could to become mortgage free as soon as possible with any spare cash or legacy going to pay of the loan. – I was pleased when I heard interest rates later went into double digits.

                        #5977
                        tadkatadka
                        Participant
                          @tadka
                          Forumite Points: 0

                          Many people do not understand the way a mortgage works and it can appear daunting to try to find out.

                          You are not wrong there… I tried looking into how banks calculate their repayments and the only answer I could find was “it’s very complicated”… And that was from people who on MSE forum… I have to give it another try.

                          #5978
                          tadkatadka
                          Participant
                            @tadka
                            Forumite Points: 0

                            By remortgage do you mean ‘take a new mortgage deal’? I’ve just signed up to a 10 year fixed rate because my previous mortgage has ended and I would be put onto the standard, higher rate. I don’t have a new mortgage but just a new fixed term agreement on how I will pay it so the rates are lower than the standard rates. Everything else stays the same. If so then you will probably pay less money each month but you are just paying less interest and not affecting the repayment of the loan.

                            That’s what I meant. I will be getting a new fixed rate deal for another 2 or 5 or 10 years without extending the mortgage repayment period.

                            I never really did the maths on this and just kind of assumed that my borrowed amount would be divided into 300 chunks (25 years times 12 months) and each moth I would pay one chunk plus interest. So £91,400 divided by 300 is £304. I thought that would be the amount I pay off my mortgage every months. And plus the interest on top. So the lower the LTV the lower the interest. So I thought every month I would be paying back £304 plus the interest which would be going down as the amount owed would be less every year. Of course it would go up if the interest rate went up.

                            But it doesn’t seem to be the case. I looked at the monthly interest payments again and they appear to be totally random numbers. At first I thought it was going down but it is not.  Monthly interest charge has remained more or less the same with slight variation ranging from £348 to £330 and totalling £4,077.47 for the year. That’s £339.79 monthly average. That is 67% of my £507.51 monthly repayment. And only £167.72 was the monthly deduction off the amount owed. And at this point I am totally lost…

                            My interest rate is 4.49% so that’s £4,104 for year. They charged me £4,077 which is close enough. So that will go down as the amount owed goes down. But how do they work out how much is my total monthly payment? Why £507.51 and not another number? I give up…

                            #5982
                            Ed PEd P
                            Participant
                              @edps
                              Forumite Points: 39

                              You could TRY a mortgage calculator and see what that shows. Like Dave & Richard I paid off my mortgage as soon as I had built up enough loot during my Middle East sojourns so I’m afraid I cannot test it for you.

                              #5983
                              tadkatadka
                              Participant
                                @tadka
                                Forumite Points: 0

                                Thx will give it a try. I guess at the end of the day the aim is to have the repayments as low as possible and try to overpay as much as possible. But I find it frustrating not being able to see in advance how much of my repayments are going to be interest interest. Though I suppose it is possible to wok it out. Will look at that calculator now  :good:

                                #5986
                                Dave RiceDave Rice
                                Participant
                                  @ricedg
                                  Forumite Points: 7

                                  It’s a complicated formula, but this is a good DIY guide using Excel http://www.wikihow.com/Calculate-Mortgage-Payments

                                  Note the bit at the end, the amortization schedule. EDIT – that’s the bit will tell you the monthly split of interest / capital.

                                  Think of it like the opposite of compound interest. I’m probably going to explain this technically incorrectly, but it works for me ?

                                  At the start your loan is say £50k and you pay the interest on £50k plus a bit to reduce the loan. So the next month you owe the interest on say £49.9k so the interest payment is less. If you keep the payment the same a bit more goes into reducing the loan again. So say the next month you now owe say £49.75k, so that’s less interest and more off the loan. And so it goes on until the situation is reversed and more of your payment goes to reducing the loan than paying the interest.

                                  When I paid mine off I had to get a quote for that day and that day only. God knows how they worked it out as when the endowments matured I paid them in but they didn’t cover the interest they were meant to (which we planned for, but underestimated, by having a larger repayment portion than required). I kept the monthly payment the same when the interest rates dropped to further compensate for the endowments. We were on track to finish owing little to nothing, but redundancy sorted that out with 5 years to go.

                                  #5988
                                  tadkatadka
                                  Participant
                                    @tadka
                                    Forumite Points: 0

                                    At the start your loan is say £50k and you pay the interest on £50k plus a bit to reduce the loan. So the next month you owe the interest on say £49.9k so the interest payment is less. If you keep the payment the same a bit more goes into reducing the loan again. So say the next month you now owe say £49.75k, so that’s less interest and more off the loan. And so it goes on until the situation is reversed and more of your payment goes to reducing the loan than paying the interest.

                                    Finally I wrapped my brain around it  :yahoo:  but now I have to go and google “endowment” as I have no idea what that is.

                                    Did some very crude maths and if the interest rate was to stay low, as it is now, the total amount I would be paying the bank is about £125,000. That’s about  £33,000 in interest. If in 23 years time this forum is still here it will be interesting to see if I met my target.

                                    #5989
                                    Dave RiceDave Rice
                                    Participant
                                      @ricedg
                                      Forumite Points: 7

                                      Endowment mortgages are interest only with the capital paid off at the end by an endowment policy.

                                      The scam (which we got heavily bitten by) was that the projected illustrations of how the policy would perform were deliberately flawed. Most of the first two years payments actually went to pay the commission of the agents who, as you can imagine, loved them. All that money up front.

                                      There was no mention of a repayment mortgage at the time, that was old fashioned. Why would you do that when you could not only repay the capital but have a similar sum again to spend as you wished? Of course it was all a total lie and cost me over £20k.

                                      #5991
                                      tadkatadka
                                      Participant
                                        @tadka
                                        Forumite Points: 0

                                        That’s a lot of big words  🙂

                                        So you only paid interest and then what happens at the end? You have a house that was lets say was £50k but now is worth £200k? So you sell the house give £50k to the bank and keep the rest? Sounds too good, I guess it’s not quite that simple? And how long ago was that?

                                        #5992
                                        RichardRichard
                                        Participant
                                          @sawboman
                                          Forumite Points: 16

                                          While I did have an endowment policy it was not tied to the mortgage and I kept the mortgage as a repayment style one. I agree with Dave’s assessment of how they work, one extra point to add might be relating to when the interest is worked out. Some do it monthly, some do it at other intervals or when the rate changes. This can be important as if you make an excess payment, it could count very quickly and affect future interest, in other cases it could be sometime before the figures are re-calculated. Things may have been cleaned up over the years but at one time it was only recalculated every year by some lenders. I have been out of that market since 1980. Though I took a passing interest when by daughter bought her house back in 2010 and my endowment part funded that venture She lead with that job and it has been all her own business.
                                          Another point on which I agree with Dave is that the endowment projections were straight out of the la-la land book of nursery tales. It did not really affect me but it produced about 40% to 60% of what I was told to expect.I know they left some people with serious issues. Happily my redundancy money went straight into the pension and that was one of my (few) good moves.

                                          Edits were to remove odd type setting instructions that appeared.

                                          #5995
                                          Dave RiceDave Rice
                                          Participant
                                            @ricedg
                                            Forumite Points: 7

                                            Well you could sell the house to pay the capital at the end, but then you’d have no house and not enough money to buy a similar one.

                                            Probably OK if you live in London and want to move elsewhere.

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