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blacklion1725.
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March 17, 2017 at 9:01 pm #5283
Next Thursday (23rd) SWMBO and I are driving down to That Lunden, to attend the funeral of SWMBO’s lovely Welsh Aunt, who did not quite manage to make 100, by a few months. Unfamiliar territory for me, it’s around the Beckenham area. I have visited once and duly got lost, as them Lundeners decided to start some roadworks without informing anyone. I had checked TfL, AA and RAC beforehand, no works showing. I had no SatNav then, so I am hoping that my Garmin, with its newly installed and updated Roadworks Warning feature, will avoid the possibility of getting lost again. According to Tfl, the only works near the location are North of the A21 portion of our journey: Tulse Hill, Birkbeck Hill (Bridge work) and Bromley.
If any Forumites have knowledge of the area, I would appreciate advice. I am well used to North and Central London, as I have friends in High Barnet and go directly into Central London via the Northern Line. But South of the Thames is a mystery to me. we are staying 2 nights and returning Saturday, booked the same hotel we stayed at almost 5 years ago on Aunt’s 95th birthday.
Us Yokels do not like driving in cities, they are populated by some strange drivers with stranger habits. :wacko: I will be outside of the Congestion Charge area, coming clockwise around the M25 from the M11 and A1. :scratch:
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.March 18, 2017 at 12:44 am #5285If you’re going to be using the M25, be aware of THESE. Now, when there is a speed limit showing on the overhead gantries, they are in force. The M25 is a Smart Motorway between J23 (A1M) and J24 Potters Bar, – you’ll miss this section if you come down the M11 – also between J27 ( M11) and J30, heading towards the Dartford Crossing.
March 18, 2017 at 7:23 am #5286If you are using the Dartford crossing you must pay by midnight on the following day. More or less on-line only so you need a smart phone or pay in advance.(details in link). Quite frankly the Essex/Kent section of the M25 is a pig with respect to timing a journey. I now add on 30 minutes to the expected journey time to give some contingency. The anti-clockwise route is a bit better in that respect, but the speed restrictions are irrational and controlled by some traffic cop with a malicious sense of humour. (the ‘smart’ bit refers to cramming on more cars than the roads were designed to take, and certainly not to the way it is implemented!)
March 18, 2017 at 7:54 am #5288@ admin – Couldn’t add this as an Edit to my last post.
The other side of the Dartford Crossing from J5 ( M26 ) to J7 ( M23 ) the cameras also work. I use that stretch on my Marsden runs. Between the bridge and J5 I couldn’t be certain about.
March 18, 2017 at 8:24 am #5289While Ed is correct in saying that you have to pay very quickly you can use cash at a suitable retailer.
This link open up Pandora’s box on the (non) system
https://www.gov.uk/pay-dartford-crossing-charge
Do read the site thoroughly, if you pay no tax on a vehicle for a disabled user it appears that you do not pay to use the crossing.
It appears that with a bit of digging into the single trip charge under ‘pay by cash’ you end up on the PayZone web site, to be fair it is a few lines down and this is the link:
Click on the Consumers line and enter the post code of the hotel or whatever and find suitable stores in the area. You can then pay the charge.
I have no idea how the heck you would use a phone to pay.
Note charging only applies between 06:00 and 22:00 hours. I doubt you plan to arrive outside of that time window but you have not experienced the possibilities of congestion or idiot mobile phone thieves travelling the wrong way on the M11 motorway.
Do remember that you also have to pay on the way back and paying for that might be more challenging, I am not sure that you can prepay by cash at a payzone store and payzone stores may or may not not be nationwide for this ‘service’, you could check out your own local area in respect of the return journey before you set out.
At least payment at a payzone store results in a paper receipt to confirm your actions; – provided that the cranky system was working successfully.
It appears that you can prepay on line up to 12 months before travel according to their website, but do not take my word for anything I have said, check it out yourself or ring their 0300 line to cross check.
Good luck, funerals are not fun but remember the good times and points of the deceased and meet old friends and hold a good wake.
E&OE
Richard
March 18, 2017 at 11:33 am #5293The crossing itself is generally much better since they got rid of the toll booths, but north to south over the bridge generally fares better than south to north through the tunnels.
Regarding the route if you come over the bridge A20 (junction before A21) then south circular would be how I’d drive to Beckenham.Hope it goes as well as possible
March 18, 2017 at 12:48 pm #5294By for the best trick is to check the traffic for the few days prior to leave (around the time you leave) on your sat nav. That will give you an idea of how heavy yer traffic is at that time.
Waze maps actually has a great feature, stick in a destination, but hit ‘travel later’ or ‘plan journey’ a tab to that effect. And a graph opens telling you the average amount of traffic on the trip on an hour by hour basis.
Also if traffic peaks, waze will alert you to leave earlier. Just like Google now does,if you have a destination in your calendar appointments.
March 18, 2017 at 12:52 pm #5295Also but the Tom Tom speak camera overlay app on your phone. Of your Garmin doesn’t show cameras.
When I a foreign area, I like to set the car speed limiter to 32 yesterday to be safe. 32=29 I’m my car.
March 18, 2017 at 3:15 pm #5305“I have no idea how the heck you would use a phone to pay.”
We set up an account, details on the link, then you can use a phone. You can prepay in this way too. I have never tried to use cash as I did not trust my ability to find the requisite outlet at a place/time that suited me.
March 18, 2017 at 3:15 pm #5306Thanks guys, lots of useful information there.
JayCeeDee: I don’t worry about cameras, I set my Cruise Control to 2 mph over the limit and keep my eye out for sign changes. The Garmin detects cameras and ‘pings’ before I get to them. I come down the M11 due to missing Boston, which is a nightmare, so I swing west of it and arrive at the M11 after A1 (M) and A14. I exit the M25 at junction 4, for the A21. all that part of the journey is no problem, it’s just getting into Beckenham and the endless hold ups that seem to happen every time I get deeper into London.
Ed: Thanks for that, but the Charge is fortunately irrelevant as I drive a Motability car. I recall last time I went through the Crossing, being able to drive straight through by flashing my Blue Badge. Since tax discs were ended, ANPR-type cameras instantly recognise the reg. plate and wave through Disabled motorists. One more reason to be grateful for Motability, and I always am!
Richard: Thanks but the above covers the Charge problem. AFAIK, paying by phone is for those who have their bank details on the phone, or some method such as Apple Pay or Paypal. I don’t have any of this on my phone. As you say, funerals are not fun, but this may be the last time I meet some of SWMBO’s relatives for some time. They are almost all more interesting, welcoming and entertaining than most of my own! There will be people from all over the country and the planet. As for the lovely aunt, well I loved the old girl, she was a wonderful person, very Welsh. At her 95th birthday, her daughter had a huge party in a big hall with over 300 guests. She sat in a large chair in the centre, demolishing a large buffet, with family and friends coming up to speak and greet her, like the Queen holding Court. I left it until later, having not seen her for some time, then asked if she remembered me. “Of course I do: you are ******’s husband, Bob! Are you looking after my niece well?” 95, still an excellent memory. Small, very thin, but could eat for Wales!
BL: Thanks for that. I know the A21 better than the A20, and I’m told there are bridge works at Birkbeck Hill which are having a knock-on effect around Bromley and Beckenham. I may be going down to SWMBO’s cousin again later, and will ask you again about the A20
Steve: most of the above covers your advice, but thanks for the Waze information. It keeps coming up on my phone as an app offer, I’ll download it. My Garmin is just updated and has camera warnings and roadworks, but I am an RAC member through Motability so will check their info before I go. that’s how I also set my cruise control, always + 2mph above the limit.
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.March 18, 2017 at 5:03 pm #5311I thought that you might be covered for the ‘free entry’ but I only found that existed after I had done most of the other work. It might be of use to some in the future, perhaps even me if I am daft enough to travel that way again.
I hope that it all goes well for everyone. I think I have buried most of mine apart from my brother, his brood of two and my brood with a new one soon to hopefully arrive OK, fingers cross. They are all north of the Thames.
March 18, 2017 at 5:49 pm #5314I’d add only one thing and that is if you are using the M11 then take great care. The stretch from Duxford down to the M25 is fast open road and invites idiots to go pedal to the metal. Most RTAs that occur on that stretch result in fatalities. Its often long haul artic’s heading down for the channel ports that are involved. Not so many RTA’s on the north bound side. So just watch yourself mate and leave one hell of a gap in front of you on that stretch and overtake only when you’ve got an empty spare lane as a escape route if needed.
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March 18, 2017 at 6:42 pm #5317I do not know when you last went round the M25 but round from the M11 to the Dartford crossing it has several many lane sections so you need your wits about you or you can end up being shot off to Chelmsford. From about 14:30 onwards it can start to get busy and Fridays used to be hell on stationary wheels after about 15:00 hours. VFM is right watch the space front and back if traffic gets heavy, the queue down to the M25 can get a bit hairy with tired long distance drivers, many of whom are keen to get back to their ‘home’ mainland. They do not always watch out for stopping traffic and of course they also sit on the wrong side of the cab, but I guess that is the case in many parts of the country now-a-days. When the road is clear it is a fine bit of road in good weather, I have often been up to Cambridge (and Duxford as well). My daughter works in the big hospital there and travels up the M11 on many Sundays when the trains are total crap. Her husband takes her up and then come back before returning again in the evening as she does not have a license due to ‘medical issues’ – now resolved. She starts maternity leave in the next few days so that is one set of journeys that will take a rest, no one will cry about that.
March 19, 2017 at 11:50 am #5333Thanks for the advice guys, I will take care on the M11. We are well used to foreign trucks around here, coming and going from and to the Humber ports. Our problem is that Lincolnshire has very few dual carriageways and these trucks can hold up traffic. The A15 is particularly bad, one of the worst roads for casualties in the UK. There are long, straight stretches of single carriageway and drivers get impatient, misjudge overtaking distance and either pile into a dyke or bury themselves in a truck front end. I find that the Netherlands truckies are the best drivers, most of them have been coming for years either to Lincs farms to collect greenstuff, or to plant and flower warehouses and greenhouses to deliver.
There is also quite a sizeable colony of Dutch people hereabouts, including a retired sea captain who is my gdaughter’s unofficial ‘gt-granddad’. He is 87 and still sprightly, lives behind the house where my daughter lived until she moved to Louth last year. My eldest gson and youngest gdaughter grew up with him next door, he is a great old guy and we take him with us on family outings, he is just part of our family. I visit him occasionally just to hear his sea stories: the man has been at sea since he was 14 and went all the way from deck hand to Master Navigator. He retired only a few years ago and was still mastering huge tankers around the world at 80. Incredible man, half German, but says he buried that half when he buried his dad.
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.March 19, 2017 at 9:28 pm #5357I’ve just come back from a trip to Milton Keynes and back for the BiL’s 60th. Like you, Bob, I set the CC to speed limit + 5 – 10%. The only problem there is every time you have to brake, like for lorries limited to 60, trying to overtake a lorry doing 58!! Then you have to get back up to speed and I found myself inadvertently close to 85. The point at which a warning becomes a nicking.:( Your style of driving sounds very familiar!!
March 19, 2017 at 11:02 pm #536085 is fine on a motorway, as your speedo will be off by 10-15% unless you have on larger wheels than factory fitted , your likely only doing 77, a camera will get you, but a passing police car won’t bother. Over 80 and your pushing it, at90 will be a telling off and a fine, 100 is suppose to land you with a total ban, and potentially prison, but more and more I’m hearing people get a slap on the wrists for it.
Our motoway speed should be upped inline with the EU, 81mph is a far better speed limit, most modern cars will cruise at a 100 all day long, and stop in about half the distance that a 70mph car would in the 60s. So I can’t see the problem with 81(130kph). Along with modern abs systems it’s harder to make a car go out of control than it is to not go out of control. At that point you shouldn’t own a licence and be anywhere near a car.
In the EU you just donrvget the 1/2 and 1/2 drivers we get here, the 60mph people and the 90mph people that all want the centre lane! Every one goes 85mph,the ones that don’t have great lane discipline.
One thing that confuses me is people that don’t like motorways drive so slow in the inside lane. The inside lane it the hardest of the 3,as not only do you have to watch the lane to your right, bit have to watch out for on ramps. Now if they just drive at 90 in the 3rd lane, all you have to do it keep an eye out to your rear. And at 90 not alot approaches you and you don’t catch up with many,
So I say it’s safer to do 90 In the 3rd lane than 50 in the 1st Lane.
I not a rash driver, I alter my style according to the weather and the conditions but I’m an inpatient one. I hate it when your about to over take and some one pulls out, especially when you have been watching them for 30 seconds as you approch. Some people just dont anticipate. If I’m on the middle lane and I want to over take some one, but can see there is a car coming in the right lane, I’ll ether wait it out, or blast bast the car in front, as I don’t want to make the guy on the right have to alter his speed. When it happens to me it angers me, if I known with anticipation they could of avoided it.
Another of my character flaws.
I also don’t like people flashing lights behind me. I’d never do it, it’s rude, (I only flash to peeps without lights on), and when some one doest it to me, I purposely find joy in messing with the person for a good whole.
Unless they have an exotic car, not much can overtake me, so I’ll take joy in slowing them up, and pulling away when they go to over/under take.
The when it’s done just smile and wave as they are F-ing and blinding and giving me the birdie.
It’s the little things on life. Another character flaw.
Though I don’t think my next car will be quick, so I may have to retire that game.
March 20, 2017 at 12:06 am #536185 is fine on a motorway, as your speedo will be off by 10-15% unless you have on larger wheels than factory fitted , your likely only doing 77, a camera will get you, but a passing police car won’t bother. Over 80 and your pushing it, at 90 will be a telling off and a fine, 100 is suppose to land you with a total ban, and potentially prison, but more and more I’m hearing people get a slap on the wrists for it.
A Police Officer that I knew through Dog Training, used to say that Speed Limit + 10% + 10% was the limit for a lecture. ie 37, 48, 60, 85. However, if you do Speed Limit + 50%, that automatically qualifies as dangerous driving, eg 105 in a 70 limit, 45/30, 60/40, 75/50,90/60, which is where the ban came from.
March 20, 2017 at 7:13 am #5363They tend to be a LOT more strict on the so-called ‘Smart’ average speed sections as it obviously is not a minor incursion when overtaking, but a more deliberate attempt to push the limits. Do a 78 indicated average over a section and the cameras WILL give you a ticket (always assuming the cameras are in service).
March 20, 2017 at 8:18 am #5364I’ve just come back from a trip to Milton Keynes and back for the BiL’s 60th. Like you, Bob, I set the CC to speed limit + 5 – 10%. The only problem there is every time you have to brake, like for lorries limited to 60, trying to overtake a lorry doing 58!! Then you have to get back up to speed and I found myself inadvertently close to 85. The point at which a warning becomes a nicking.:( Your style of driving sounds very familiar!!
You succeeded in getting into and out of Milton Keynes? What a godawful place that is to visit. Terrible road layouts and when we went there for a wedding almost every road appeared to be closed or subject to diversions. At one point we were diverted out onto what felt like c or d class country roads. What an improvement that was as we were able to find a road to sanity once more.
I will never again visit the place that navigation forgot.
March 20, 2017 at 8:42 am #5365They tend to be a LOT more strict on the so-called ‘Smart’ average speed sections as it obviously is not a minor incursion when overtaking, but a more deliberate attempt to push the limits. Do a 78 indicated average over a section and the cameras WILL give you a ticket (always assuming the cameras are in service).
I am not so sure that they even give that much tolerance for an average speed section. In the past, on long sections some had the sneaky habit of putting an instant speed camera in place to catch those who blasted past any vehicles slowed up by e.g. hills. I am not sure if that is the case now. I believe that the average speed cameras on the M25 take the attitude that averaging the posted speed suggests you might have exceeded it somewhere along the line so anything over earns you a letter and a cost. So 41 or 42 ‘might’ be OK in a posted 40 and so on for other posted speeds, but after that it is all automatic action. I do understand the theory born of studies, surging traffic is a problem in congested areas and the M25 used to be terrible for that problem. One minute you might all be cruising along at 50 in heavy traffic. The next you would all try to stop down to 15 as something went slightly wrong, ahead. Minutes later, if no one bumped into anyone you might be on the move again and back up to 45 to 50. at a constant 40 or 50 flow would be smoother and more traffic could pass.
This came into focus when a suspect bridge , (back when box section bridges started to fall down*) had a a low speed limit posted. Due to the increased vehicle density the static load more than doubled. However, the dynamic loads were very substantially reduced as heavy trucks were no longer bouncing about at speed.
*The cause of the failures was found and corrected, Existing bridges were inspected and found not to suffer the defects during construction that had caused the failures.
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