Forumite Members › General Topics › Politics › Europe › What's Wrong with Romania????
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Richard.
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March 5, 2019 at 3:58 pm #31359
Today I was totally baffled by a new YouGov poll conducted across the EU. The public in six EU member states (Britain, France, Germany, Sweden, Denmark and Finland) were asked whether it was right or wrong to have allowed each of the current members of the EU to have joined, as well as whether countries that are not currently members should be given permission to join if they wanted to do so.
One state we hear very little about is Romania but it seems the Germans, the French, the Finns, the Danes and the Swedes all have a downer on it and also on Bulgaria although not as consistently.
Can anyone explain this to me? Has Romania done something I have missed? I just can’t see why the downer on Romania should be so consistent across so many states? Any ideas folks.
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March 5, 2019 at 4:52 pm #31362It is mainly pure fascist anti-Roma feeling which goes back before WWII. (around half a million were killed in the Nazi Death-camps as ‘unter-menschen’). Why they would be treated in this way beats me on a personal level but I could make the same remark about the genocide/persecution of any ethnic/religious group.
If you search for a deeper meaning it is probably partly due to an innate primitive animalistic persecution of anyone who looks or behaves differently. For example Crows and Great Apes hunt down and kill albinos of their species – something not unknown with humans either. Unfortunately the people who join right-wing fascists groups appear to be those who are more likely to let loose these primitive instincts.
March 5, 2019 at 5:39 pm #31363Not an answer but over the summer 2 of my kids went from Hungary in a big southwards circle ending in Brasov Romania, my son has friends there. They had a fantastic time in the ex Soviet states everywhere but Serbia.
Memories go back a long time, look at Ireland and what they still march about. It gets forgotten what the actual reason was and if it’s still relevant, just the hatred remains. Of course if it was WWII then there will be those that were there still alive.
March 5, 2019 at 6:15 pm #31365I’m not sure, Ed. The anti-Roma sentiment might make sense in Germany but would that be so in France, Sweden, Denmark and Finland?
Someone I was talking to earlier (in person after I had posted) suggested that it might be due to memories of the appalling pictures and stories of the conditions in the country’s orphanages during the Ceausescu regime. Perhaps that tainted not just his regime but the entire country in many European’s eyes. As my friend put it, those orphanages were well on the way to being, I quote him, “Concentration Camps for Kiddies”. Something of an exaggeration but not by much. I must admit I’d totally forgotten about all that until he reminded me.
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March 5, 2019 at 6:41 pm #31371Never mind the French – strong anti-Roma/Traveller feelings can even be found in the UK, and goes back to the Middle Ages. Why I have no idea – it makes as much sense to me as witch hunting.
March 5, 2019 at 7:49 pm #31372There are many reasons that that country comes up for criticism, both just and unjust.
In no particular order, ( and no particular accuracy!! other than the last example,)
Travellers ( generally assumed to be Romany and therefore from Romania) cause problems wherever they go. These are in fact itinerants from Eastern Europe and not necessarily from Romania.
Street crime and shoplifting ( Oxford Street etc,) seems to be organised trips by Romanian gangs and if caught and deported, find their way back to rinse and repeat.
Gangs of beggars along rich thoroughfares – I worked on Kensington High Street for 20 odd years and they were the bane of our street trading life. They would consist of a 30ish year old woman, a young girl 6 – 10, a baby swaddled up and drugged – yes, they drugged them so they were quiet!! – these were up and down the street all day, begging from passers by and our customers. They had a card with a sad tale on it, spoke no English ( supposedly ) , but gave you dirty looks when you told the public about the Mercedes limos that came two or three times a day to collect the money they had made. We found out from our local home beat officer that they held Romanian passports and travelled back and forth to home regularly.
This isn’t a racist rant, just an answer to the question above.
March 5, 2019 at 8:11 pm #31373@ Ed,
My paternal Great Grandmother was Romany so I do understand that, Ed. Today in the UK you’ll typically find more prejudice towards the Irish Traveller community than towards true Romanies. Indeed, if you look at top table in the YouGov poll, the UK was fine with Romania’s membership. And we were by far the most tolerant re all current memberships and potential memberships; and on balance the only state accepting of Romania’s membership. Personally, I have always believed that, despite what is often said re the Brexit vote, we remain by far the least racist country in the EU. Brexit or No Brexit the extreme right has a far more fertile breeding ground in mainland Europe than in the British Isles; note I am using the geographical term that encompasses the whole Island of Ireland and which, as with the UK, I do not believe has a significant problem with race.
The bottom table were also fascinating because the public resistance to new Eastward states joining the EU was consistent and very substantial in France and almost as high in Germany. To me this suggests that if the EU political project continues to pursue such memberships it is increasingly certain to rub those electorates up the wrong way and thereby fuel still further the rise of the extreme right.
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March 6, 2019 at 4:58 pm #31399Its all to do with that so called blood sucking king of theres from centuries ago. That Impale chap.
Adopted by bram stocker chap. You follow. 🙂
March 6, 2019 at 6:22 pm #31407VFM I had a Romany grandmother, born 1878 in a real Romany van in the West country, Devon she believed. How she met my granddad is a mystery we never discovered: he was very well educated in Stoke on Trent, until his father had a fraud conviction and the family fortune went TU.
Gran was a genuine Romany, not one of those itinerant wasters called ‘Travelers’ who do not appear to want to ‘travel’ until they have completely messed up any environment they have tricked, sneaked, intimidated and thieved and their way into. Please do not call Roms “Travellers” – that is not who they are. Gran had so much knowledge of her people: she always said that they came from the East “a long, long time ago”. I discovered this was absolutely correct: they were originally a people in mainly Northwest India, called the Dravidians. They were forced out by Moghuls from the North and never stopped traveling, becoming poorer over the centuries as they lost or sold what they had. It is a truism that even poor people come to hate those worse off than themselves, which is why Romanies were hated, feared for no reason, abused, intimidated and sent packing wherever they went. I talked to gran a lot, she lived to 1967 whereas granddad died in 1954. Her meals were something else, she would go out early morning to collect mushrooms, herbs and all kinds of edible stuff. She was the last of my grandparents and I really loved my tiny, strong old grandma. Mother of 13 children, 8 actually lived through childhood, infancy or birth. I managed to get home from Aden for two weeks as she lay in a Staffordshire sanatorium. I sat at one side of the bed, my dad at the other. Dad made a little joke to try to cheer her up, a bit near the knuckle. Gran gave him a baleful look, reared up in bed and WHACK! Upside the head: “I told ‘e afore – you’m never too old fer a smack!” Dad’s ear was red and I was hysterical. It still makes me smile now.
No one runs down Roms in my hearing and gets away with it. RIP Elizabeth Mary Williams, you earned your rest gran.
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.March 7, 2019 at 1:23 pm #31419I envy you, Bob. As I said it was my Great Grandmother who was Romany and I can only vaguely recall her face let alone her voice as I was about four when she passed on. I’m told her eldest girl, my Grans oldest sister was just like her. If she was then she must have been one hell of a woman because my Gran’s eldest sister was the equal of any man when it came to starting up and running businesses. She had close on an empire of shops and B&B’s in West London all from her own enterprise. But although tough in business she was equally down to earth and rather homely so you’d have had no idea until you saw the cars she drove; her one luxury weakness. I was well in my teens when she departed so have far more memories of her.
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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.
March 8, 2019 at 11:33 pm #31439You have her blood VFM, a little of her MDNA in your body. A small part of both of us, is Romany. In my case, also Welsh. What a mixture!
Maybe why I like traveling, I have always had what Germans call Wanderlust. When I was very young, I lived with a Staffordshire aunt and my 5 cousins for over 2 years. I was traveling over there from Notts every year from 8 years old, alone, via 5 or 6 buses. I left home at 13 and joined a traveling fair, eventually spotted and brought back by the police. At 16 I went to sea, at 19 I was in the Army. I have traveled all over the world and carried on holidaying where and when I could. This year we are flying to Budapest for a Danube river cruise: never been to Budapest and I am as excited as a kid waiting for Christmas, at 74 years old. As long as I can, I will travel.
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.March 9, 2019 at 9:11 am #31442I envy you, Bob. Nothing I enjoy more than freely wandering around cities with robust and long lived heritage be they in Europe, the UK or anywhere. Alas with my partner’s numerous medical conditions slowly deteriorating and her now being wheelchair bound (at least outside the home) travel is increasingly constrained. I miss it greatly.
I’ve never had any real association with the sea but seem to be drawn to water. My favorite European city is Copenhagen with Amsterdam close second. Never got to Venice and doubt I now will.
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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.
March 9, 2019 at 10:10 am #31444VFM, do you have any issues with travel insurance? My wife copped a higher premium when we last travelled 10 years ago following her melanoma from 16 years earlier. Since then the list of issues has markedly increased, waiting room conversations suggested that other patients with even with fewer overlapping issues had considerable difficulty even getting quotes. My own list has been doing some growing as well though with less intense activity. Neither of us is wheelchair bound but my wife now moves quite slowly and only over shorter distances, while I can walk fairly briskly, standing is painful and walking slowly is a painful, unstable issue – supermarket trolleys are a real boon in such circumstances. This problem has just been diagnosed as a ‘sports injury’!
March 9, 2019 at 12:13 pm #31445For those with mobility problems, maybe a cruise will suit?
Unfortunately although I love the sea SWMBO has been known to throw up on the Grand Union Canal!
March 9, 2019 at 1:11 pm #31446Yes, our last holiday in 2009 was a cruise, a gentle drive to Southampton and the holiday started as soon as we got out of the car. No awful airport to fight through, but the travel insurance issue can still be a major problem.
March 9, 2019 at 6:19 pm #31458Travel insurance I always use, they specialise in insurance for those with existing conditions and/or disabilities:
I am currently waiting for Lincoln hospital to give me the next Urology appointment, so that I know what to say in my quote. It can be done online, but I recommend a phone call; clear English voices!
VFM: I had two neighbours who used to tour the world. He had Polio as a child, walked with a stick. She was wheelchair bound. They had separate holidays in South Africa, Kenya, Australia, NZ and in one memorable holiday they travelled across Canada via the TransCanada railway. Flew to Vancouver, traveled across the country and flew back from Toronto:
Their names were Terry and June (really!) and they were older than us. They passed away a few years ago, but what a life they had before they went! try a disabled Canal Cruise in the UK mate:
Ed thanks for that link, a very good idea for disabled people who like sea cruises, we don’t, much prefer river cruising. I am passing it to my SIL though.
Richard I can recommend Vienna airport, the best I have used for treating disabled people. I am hoping Budapest is as good! Munich is awful: so modern, so efficient but so Teutonic in their treatment of the disabled. A “one box” approach!
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.March 9, 2019 at 8:48 pm #31470Haven’t been out of the country since my better half’s conditions ‘avalanched’ around ten years ago. By that I mean there was a cascade of conditions some associated some not that either developed or dramatically worsened in less than an 18 month period as to fit the term avalanche. Literally, every visit to deal with one problem seemed to result also in another condition being diagnosed. These days all travel pretty much needs another suitcase merely for her various medications. I haven’t counted lately but its over a dozen different meds a day (some once a day , some twice a day and some three times a day) plus two that are weekly and inhalers as required. Haven’t quite got to needing an O2 cylinder yet but I doubt that it will be more than a year before that’s required. I just love the look on the face of doctors and ambulance crews that haven’t met her before whenever they ask what conditions she has or what med’s she is on. I keep a list of both constantly updated and several copies to hand.
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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.
March 9, 2019 at 9:26 pm #31473You have my sympathy VFM, I was not aware of the extent of your missus’ problems. Whilst last year my SWMBO had a new hip, shortly after I had the cancers and chemo and we were propping each other up, still do. She also has several problems, but nothing like your wife’s. Although the way her other hip and knees are going, she may need one of those mobility scooters soon. At least I can walk, well sort of, but I can just keep going atm, if slow and steady, I can manage a couple of miles.
I do the same with all our conditions and meds: I wrote a long history of it all and find myself having to update it all every year (last year every month, seemed like) We have one big kitchen drawer full of meds – “His & Hers”. When I go to hospital appointments and they ask for prescriptions, I hand over the surgery scrip printout and I give a ‘new’ medico a sheet with all my conditions written down: it’s quicker that way!
I hesitate to ask, it can be personal, but do you have Motability? That is one thing I could not manage without: in this rural village with poor bus services, we need a car. If I could not drive, we would have to move into town and I love this beautiful village.
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.March 10, 2019 at 1:51 am #31476I just love the look on the face of doctors and ambulance crews that haven’t met her before whenever they ask what conditions she has or what med’s she is on. I keep a list of both constantly updated and several copies to hand.
I always love the question ‘Do you have any medical conditions, or take any medications?’ The wife and I usually look at each other and laugh before saying, yep, one or two, then handing over an A4 page of info ?
When I go to hospital appointments and they ask for prescriptions, I hand over the surgery scrip printout and I give a ‘new’ medico a sheet with all my conditions written down: it’s quicker that way!
I keep a medical sheet on my computer, and saved through Google Drive so that it’s on my phone too. When I remember to print it, I keep a paper copy in my wallet. On it I have:
Full name a date of birth
Full address
My main hospital and hospital patient number, and my NHS number
List of meds and doses with times e.g. Omeprazole 40mg Daily
Brief list of my health issues
Allergies and what they do to me
Blood type and the fact that I’m a registered donor
List of my medical contacts – doctors, nurses, transplant team, and GP
Emergency contacts and their relationship to meThis has covered me so far, including the time I was taken off a cruise and rushed to a French hospital on my honeymoon ?
March 10, 2019 at 3:16 pm #31479Yep, Bob, had Motability for over a decade now as the other half’s mobility was almost the first thing to noticeably go. Like you we always go for medium high riders as they are easier for her to get in and out; not too high not too low.
The real problem I find with her having so many problems is that no doctor is ever across them all; even if they have a full list in their hands. Fortunately my medical knowledge is of a relatively high standard for a non-medic.I can usually spot errors or misdiagnosis before it causes a problem. For example, her mix of conditions causes a blood profile that in anyone else would be 90% indicative of infection. Her white blood cell count and CRP are always at 15-20% above normal range. Uninformed doctor immediately diagnose infections and I usually need to explain that they need to consider such percentage elevation as normal in her and only if that ‘recalibrated level’ is exceeded is it indicative of infection.
Despite the increasingly aged population true Geriatricians are no longer in abundance. Older folk these days tend to see loads of different specialists. Old style Geriatricians were absolute experts at considering numerous concurrent conditions because such is the norm in old age. These days most doctors, due to specialisation begin to get out of their depth when having to consider more than four or five significant conditions at once. My missus has what is known as an Undifferentiated Auto-Immune Connective Tissue Disorder. Many doctors either forget she has that condition or do not fully know what it is and on seeing that her bloods show an elevated ESR diagnose Rheumatoid Arthritis. The are always wrong. The condition is indeed rheumatoid but nothing to do with joints. In the main it is inflammation or vasculature. So yes you will see an elevated ESR but no arthritis as such.
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During the Covid-19 Epidemic I will be wearing a mask and goggles while posting so that if I become infected I won't spread it to you.
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