Possible compatability problem.

This topic has 21 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 1 month ago by keith with the teef.

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January 6, 2019 at 7:20 pm #29707
keith with the teef
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@thinktank
Forumite Points: 0
MSI 320 board shows PCI-E slot as empty. what a bugger.

It only happens with my high end sound card, all other cards I have put in show as pci-e slot populated (in the bios) and work.

If I put the high end sound card in my gaming rig its woks every boot just fine.

I think i’m gonna have to sell the card. I dont want to. Maybe a bios change will fix it. But I dont wann do that. can any one think of another option?

For the love of god I thougt PCI-e was a chuffing hot swopable Fing standard.
January 6, 2019 at 7:48 pm #29709
Dave Rice
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@ricedg
Forumite Points: 7
The A320 is the budget end so has limited pci-e lanes compared to the B and X motherboards.

So the standards have been met but the resources aren’t sufficient. It’s like trying to carry a 30 ton load in a Transit.
January 6, 2019 at 8:18 pm #29710
Wheels-Of-Fire
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@grahamdearsley
Forumite Points: 4
As Mr Rice says you have a budget board there. If your high end sound card really needs 4 or more PCIe lanes to make a link then it wont work. Sorry.
January 6, 2019 at 8:26 pm #29711
keith with the teef
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@thinktank
Forumite Points: 0
Hmm you could be onto some thing there Dave. It is a sound, card but then again.

I did a google and it does come up with unpopulated pci-e on MSI boards.Could be random msi thing. So?

Guess I could sell the 320 board and get a gigabyte B or X?

Would it be worth trying to return it to e-buyer or do you think they will throw it back at me..

Also a new bios has just come out. I give it a try.
January 6, 2019 at 8:39 pm #29713
Wheels-Of-Fire
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@grahamdearsley
Forumite Points: 4
For a bit more information your PCIe device’s declare the number PCIe lanes they need to establish a link during device enumeration that happens at system boot time. Not enough lanes no link no go ?
January 6, 2019 at 8:57 pm #29714
Wheels-Of-Fire
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@grahamdearsley
Forumite Points: 4
Long live X58. More PCIe lane’s than you can shake a sh***y stick at ?
January 6, 2019 at 10:25 pm #29717
Dave Rice
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@ricedg
Forumite Points: 7
>4 lanes does seem a lot for a sound card but you also wonder why a sound card would be different from any other BIOS (UEFI) wise.

Just had a thought about “legacy” devices, but that can open a whole other can of worms. See if there’s a setting to put just pci-e into legacy mode, worth a try.
January 7, 2019 at 3:33 am #29719
Wheels-Of-Fire
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@grahamdearsley
Forumite Points: 4
It do seem like a lot but pro sound cards often ask for exactly 4 PCIe lanes. Some of them will fall back to as low as one but some wont budge and in that case they get nothing !

Trust me on this. If the OS cant assign enough lanes for a link then the device gets nothing and it may as well not exist.

Legacy devices are odd. They do not respond to enumeration requests. They only appear if you install a plug and play driver manually. The IBM AT standard requires that the OS assumes that there is a PS/2 keyboard but MS has been trying to ignore that for a number of years and if you dont have a PS/2 keyboard plugged in when you install W10 then you have to jump through a few hoops to get it to recognise one.
January 7, 2019 at 3:50 am #29720
Wheels-Of-Fire
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@grahamdearsley
Forumite Points: 4
Even installing the i8 something keyboard driver on its own wont work because it dosnt come with an installer that would add it to the Boot start driver list.
January 7, 2019 at 4:16 am #29721
Wheels-Of-Fire
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@grahamdearsley
Forumite Points: 4
I should perhaps also mention that Windows only takes bios settings as a hint. The Windows plug and play manager enumerates all devices at every Boot and assigns resourses for what it finds. All PCI devices have configuration memory and they work with what they are given.
January 7, 2019 at 7:06 am #29722
Dave Rice
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@ricedg
Forumite Points: 7
It’s not showing in the BIOS that’s what makes me think it’s hardware rather than Windows. Same horse, different jockey, whatever it’s still a non runner ?
January 7, 2019 at 7:46 pm #29739
keith with the teef
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@thinktank
Forumite Points: 0
So I have now exhausted every option I have with this board.

The card no matter what, will show as populated in the bios. This is now the no brainer as to why it dont work. But I took note about windows and uninstalled the gfx drivers with amd’s removol tool just in case windows had hogged all the pci-e lanes with the athlon 200GE and I pulled the cpu if therm gease had gone into the keep.

I bin on to e-buyer who gave me the number for MSI london. Tomorrow then.
January 7, 2019 at 8:15 pm #29742
Dave Rice
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@ricedg
Forumite Points: 7
Good luck.
January 8, 2019 at 7:28 pm #29748
keith with the teef
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@thinktank
Forumite Points: 0
So this problem is still up in the air. I tell why in a mo.

MSI for help is like flogging a dead horse.

E-buyer tech guys gave me an RMA.

For my new build I used a business class 1TB ssd kingstone 400? But not for about 2 weeks.

I put my old ssd in tonight and the sound card works. The mind boggles. The driver for the card is beta not windows approved.

I’m thinks the busness class ssd with windows blocked my sound card.

Any way off to do some more tests. wtf. 🙂
January 8, 2019 at 9:57 pm #29753
Dave Rice
Participant
@ricedg
Forumite Points: 7
Could well be if it’s an M2 pci-e card and not a SATA one as it will be using some of the lanes, may be all of them.
January 9, 2019 at 7:41 am #29765
Ed P
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@edps
Forumite Points: 39
+1 for Dave’s response. M2 cards are quite demanding both on lanes AND interrupts. Check your M2 requirements for your specific mobo – from memory Sound Cards have very specific interrupt requirements and so too do M2 cards. (you will probably find the data on lanes and interrupts hidden in your mobo docs.)
January 9, 2019 at 3:11 pm #29770
keith with the teef
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@thinktank
Forumite Points: 0
This is still up in the air but.

So, I decided to uninstall the driver software that comes with the HDX. Not windows certificated beta.

Installed ASIO4All latest version its less than 1000kb driver.

See what windows offered me for driver in device manager. I got the latest version of audio expoint.

Music bee hooks straight in asio4all and gives me the valus of audio out putted and the sound quality is as good as it gets. But this is on my gaming rig not the RMA’ed mobo. Now in the post.
January 25, 2019 at 5:42 pm #30111
keith with the teef
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@thinktank
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Damn the devil to hell.

I still have the same problem on this new msi board B450M.

HDX sound card works in other machines. Not this one.

The card does not show in windows and so it has to be a bios problem. As it does not show there either.

One thing I noticed is that when i put in a generic sound card and changed the pci-e speed was that that card also would not show in the bios or show in device manager. This seems to indicate that its a pci-e problem again withMSI again?

The sound card design is 4 years old.

I have contacted MSI and reged my mobo. I do not think there will be a quick fix for this unless thay can give me a full blown unlocked bios.

Is it an msi bios problem or do you think gigabyte are using the same bios.

wonder if different devices are trying to use the same resorces??
January 25, 2019 at 8:43 pm #30115
Dave Rice
Participant
@ricedg
Forumite Points: 7
It could be the CPU. All the chipsets are by default pci-e 2, the CPU makes it pci-e 3 and adds lanes and changes interrupts. What it adds (or doesn’t) is determined by whether it’s 7th Gen or Ryzen.

As I mentioned there is a complicated table plus as SATA Express didn’t take off OEMs repurpose the two in the chipset to other things like M2 and NVMe drives. There is a relationship between what the pci-e slots can do and whether you’re using an NVMe drive. The chart below doesn’t include the interrupt changes.
January 25, 2019 at 11:24 pm #30118
keith with the teef
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@thinktank
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I noticed in msconfig that the machine is set to selective start up. When I set to normal and apply on reboot its back to selective.

Fishy or what.

I spoke to AMD on the phone today. I told the guy it was his cpu his chipset in charge of the pci-e and he brushed it aside and said contact powercolor. Is there anything else I can help you with today. The Burk. 🙂
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