Which cheap security cam?

£50 gets you the sort of device you’ve linked to. There’s a You Tube review here and I think it’ll do the job for you, but I’d put an SD card in for recording. However I have no idea of the functionality of the app and I can’t see it for sale in the UK!

For internal use I use the Hikvision DS-2CD2442FWD-IW with an SD card. As you can see they are £135 on Amazon but I can get one trade for you, about £95 (less if you can pick it up from Cardiff) plus £20 for an SD card and 12v PSU from Amazon.

You set them up with a browser but after that viewing and recording can be via the app, and your f-i-l can share the connection with any number of people (and revoke access too), all they need is the app and their own account. It’s wireless so just needs a 12v PSU (it has Power over Ethernet too). No fixed IP or port forwarding required, all internet streams are encrypted with a password required.

You could also install the (free) software on your PC to allow proper management of the camera (via the internet) as you may need to change motion detection or PIR sensitivity, etc. as time goes on. App and email alerts can be set up but I’d limit them to events like video tampering or scene change (if someone moved the camera). It can be sat on it’s stand or screwed to the wall.

This is a proper professional piece of kit and yes it costs a bit more but there’s a reason for that.

Tippon, I thought that Xiaomi were recently roasted for their near total lack of any security in their devices which allowed them to be subverted for any purpose the subverter cared to name?

If you are going to help then I think you need to take Dave’s advice and set up their camera on a separate domain, but I think this is actually impossible on BT’s Homehub. Maybe you can add a second (cheap) router in series to a BT Homehub? (question for Dave). This would also get past BT’s stupid nanny system that stops OpenDNS being used on the Homehub.

I think I’ll stick to cameras that can upload to Amazon, or one of the other big names.

I’m not sure any of them do upload to “Amazon”. Watch out for “Works with Alexa” as that’s another empty phrase and from what I saw of the Arlo is pretty much just show on Fire TV or the Echo Show.

On the security side of things I’m not sure how much is “state spying” and how much is just crap product. I think it’s the latter. The noises coming out of the USA are largely propaganda and talk about pot calling kettle black! Companies like Hikvision now go to great lengths to have their products independently scrutinised. The Chinese hold all the patents on IP cameras because the once dominant USA ignored it and just stuck with analogue.

I’ve now decided that any product the US or UK warn us off because they are insecure, actually means, they can’t get access to them.

And as I’d take an ‘enemy’ state spying on me over my own, I’d take the product the gov warns me off.

Quite sad when you think about it. And the day I start my drug cartel, or start my world revolution  (not decided which yet), I’ll remove all devices from the board room.

As it stands now, I have many google, an amazon, and a xiaomi hub in ears distance from me, should get somthing Russian don’t want them to feel left out. Plus Microsoft and android, so I’m covering most bases when sharing my mundane life. Once my life gets “exciting” they’ll all have to go.

Damn then I’ll have to physically turn the lights on/off with my fingire. F-that, they can have my secrets.

I think the danger is in mischief making rather than espionage. Mind you the state of most ISP kit you don’t need anyone else interfering.

One thing I’ve learned is it’s reliability and not features no matter what the piece of kit is. Unfortunately that comes at a price but that is so much smaller now. Then you get the mentality that Tippon is facing, spend loads on a brand that doesn’t really fulfil your needs and skimp on the essentials.

This year the only money I’ve spent on PCs or upgrades has been 8GB ram and a 480GB SSD for the laptop I’m writing this on, both of which are probably a waste of money TBH. What I have spent my money on in the last 18 months is an Ac1300 Access Point (£90), a Draytek router (£110), a 24 port managed PoE switch (£110 second hand) and a 3MP Ultra Low Light Mini Bullet Network Camera (£95).

They have made such a difference but in a subtle way; you have to remember what it was like before when things were ropey. Once they’re set up they just work and take everything that’s thrown at them (and add features like VPNs, mobile access etc).  I can now apply proper security to my network as IoT inevitably creeps in. The only thing you have to keep on top of is applying any patches but that is a good thing, they are properly supported and will be for years and all let you join support mailing lists.

So for most people you’d only need the first two for a one off cost of £200 which will last many years and be supported in that time, not abandoned by the OEM once it’s a few months old. But I’ve been trying to convince so many of you here…

@Tippon, I have not closely followed the news, I am long out of the baby alarm market! Though I have seen ongoing comments that nothing ever get retro fixed and since the publicly available access codes were hard wired, change was not possible in many of the rubbish devices. Even those which had a user definable set up, often had retained the default hard wired access capability.

Twenty years ago I could sit in my lounge and go into network systems in many countries and, should I so wish change most parameters affecting their operation. However, I was then operating far above the consumer device level more gateway and main network level. What has exited the ban hammer in several countries are concerns that such remote access may have been defaulted into some supplier’s code bases, allowing them the possibility of turning access on or off or diverting copies of data flowing through the remote network. I am not commenting on the ease or difficulty of such measures, though my own experience does support the idea that changing key parameters is trivially easy once you have the required access. I do stress that such access concerns are at the higher levels of networks, the tat end of the market is mainly of interest to the mischief makers and local petty crooks who could watch coming and going at places of interest.

Dave, is recording voice along with video inside your own dwelling a major issue?

I understand that public areas, e.g. the road outside is a completely different matter, but an internal monitoring system armed by your action on leaving the premises or on retiring to bed (- a condition of some insurance policies), appears a very different can of worms. While I do have a monitored alarm system, I do not have any video or voice options, though several neighbours do have video recording, (which they have shared with the police). Too many other issues have intruded to distract me from making any advances in the video direction and in the absence of a proven need, I have lacked a driver.

Interesting Dave, some councils will loan out nose recording equipment to residents to allow an assessment of noise levels. I wonder how good one has to be at dictation to take down verbatim what was shouted through a party wall? A party wall is not a situation I suffer but if the noise from outside is great enough to be intelligible inside it would have to be a likely subject for noise abatement issues. To be honest there are a whole lot of other issues that spring to mind – though I will leave them out. Overall the suggestion would appear to rule out the use of any recording equipment, even within the confines of one’s own home; a pretty draconian situation and one I have certainly crossed, though not to date fallen foul of, e.g. by use of a home video camera in the past.

Ed, agreed. I was not knocking the Chinese products as such, but the tat end of the market where no thought has been applied to the product at all From What Dave said the vast number of patents on the technology are held by Chinese owners so the basic components will very likely come from Chinese sources. But for the £25~ £50 range and possibly for a bit, the thought given to the software and more importantly the support will be at a very reduced scale and price. I can believe that most of the hardware will be very consistent across a wide range of devices allowing for increased economies of scale, but the softer stuff like support and software itself should differentiate the offerings.

I was referring to the bans on networking iron from the likes of several Chinese makers, e.g Huawei as announced by a number of countries, though BT remained major users at the last count. There is a vast difference between the tat end and the networking ends, in size, capability, complexity, price, and throughput.