Forumite Members › General Topics › Tech › Windows Talk › A good thing with Windows 10
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johnbarry.
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June 24, 2018 at 9:33 pm #22253
A good thing with Windows 10
No more scanning, I am talking about after an accidental power down.
With Windows 10 it just starts up again.
No more Scanning Drive C:
I think it’s good.
Cheers
JohnJune 24, 2018 at 10:29 pm #22265You can thank NTFS for that.
NTFS is a journaling file system so it keeps a log of any proposed disk changes before it actually makes them. If an operation is successful it is marked as complete and gets removed from the log.
Every time Windows starts it runs a mini version of CHKDSK but it only has to scan the log file for incomplete operations, not the entire disk.
If an incomplete entry is found then NTFS rolls back the whole operation. This protects the disk structure but sadly not the data.
June 24, 2018 at 11:52 pm #22266Infact it is slightly better than that because if NTFS has successfully logged an entire operation but it has not been marked as complete because of a system crash then NTFS may decide to redo the operation instead of rolling it back.
June 25, 2018 at 7:37 am #22270Thanks Graham
Windows 7 was NTFS I am sure it CHKDSK before it got to the desktop, after a switch off (not power down) ie I have 2 PCs both on a switchable 240v socket, it’s when I switch the wrong socket off by mistake.
I will install 7 (NTFS) and see, maybe I am thinking (XP Fat32)
Cheers
JohnJune 25, 2018 at 1:55 pm #22278Hi John
I haven’t personally seen that scanning disk thing since Windows ME but I would be interested in the result of your test.
June 25, 2018 at 3:33 pm #22279Im just going to describe one of NTFS’s self healing features here because I can’t help myself ?
With the FAT system an entry in the file allocation table points to the first cluster of a file and then that cluster points to the next cluster in a linked chain. The last cluster in the chain is marked as end of file instead of pointing to another cluster.
If a cluster goes bad then you will loose all of the file past the bad cluster at the very least because there is now no way to find the next cluster in the chain.
NTFS stores file records in the Master File Table and it works in a different way. NTFS stores file data as contiguous RUNS of sectors and the file record contains the runs starting cluster and its length. If data is appended to a file then a new run is created and added to the file record.
You can probably see how this prevents lost clusters and cross linked clusters but its better than that because of virtual cluster numbers (VCN). The file record actually stores a run’s starting cluster as a Logical Cluster Number (LCN), VCN pair. The LCN represent the physical clusters on the disk, starting at 0 and continuing to the end of the disk. The VCN represents a clusters position within a file, starting at 0 and continuing to the end of the file.
If a cluster goes bad then NTFS can map in a new one and here’s how its done.
Say a file has just one run with a starting VCN of 0, a LCN of 100 and a length of 10 clusters. If a cluster, lets say 105, goes bad then NTFS will amend the length of the original run to 5 and then create a new run with just one cluster in it, starting with VCN 6 and pointing to a new good cluster. NTFS will then create a third run starting with VCN 7 and a length of 4 containing the rest of the LCN’s.
So you now have three run’s instead of one but the file is still valid with the VCN’s sill running from 0 to 9.
If you happen to be running software raid then the Windows Volume manager will fill the new cluster with data from the copy but even if you are not then loosing just one cluster may not matter much in say a jpeg file.
June 25, 2018 at 3:52 pm #22280Oh and NTFS will also add the bad cluster to the bad clusters file so it never gets used again, unlike with FAT.
June 25, 2018 at 5:33 pm #22282Im just going to describe one of NTFS’s self healing features here because I can’t help myself ?
That changed over the Win8/10 period and is the main reason that dual booting Win10 with earlier versions of Windows is fraught with issues if you have and use config (or similar) files in the earlier version. Windows seems to treat these like Win10 owned system files and keeps a hash or something of their contents. If the earlier version changes this config file, Windows 10 will ‘helpfully’ repair it as soon as it is booted. This causes issues and can even result in corrupted files in the earlier version.
Best not to use dual boot, and frankly with the speed of modern VMs there is no real excuse to do so.
June 25, 2018 at 6:00 pm #22283I would love to know what is in the 100MB hidden “System” partition these days. Under Windows 7 you could assign it a drive letter and mount it from Disk management but under W10 I have been unable to do so. This partition contains Windows boot manager and the boot configuration data base (BCD) but there is other stuff in there too I would like a look at.
By the way the “System” partition is always formatted as FAT as it is a requirement of the UEFI standard and Microsoft does the same with BIOS systems too. If im not mistaken the “Windows” partition must be NTFS for NT based versions of windows because it is the only type they can boot from.
June 25, 2018 at 6:23 pm #22286I will also mention that if you have a BIOS system you do not “Have” to have a System partition. If you let Windows 10 setup partition your drive you will get one but if you have an existing version of XP installed you won’t. In this case the boot manager and config files are put in a Windows partition.
June 25, 2018 at 8:25 pm #22293Hi John I haven’t personally seen that scanning disk thing since Windows ME but I would be interested in the result of your test.
Results are in (maybe not CHKDSK) it happens
Windows 7 – NTFS- acciddently power off / startup results below
First picture is the wrong one I started in safe mode, not normal.


This I have never seen in Windows 10, that’s what I meant.
Cheers
JohnJune 25, 2018 at 9:01 pm #22300I must admit I have not seen the Windows did not shut down properly screen in a while but I don’t know what’s changed exactly. I do know if you shut down Windows 10 improperly 3 times in a row it presents you with recovery options so maybe they just added a counter ?
If you start any version of Windows in safe mode it will list the drivers it is loading as in your screen shot.
June 25, 2018 at 10:08 pm #22307Maybe as you say after 3 power downs you could be met with recovery, I won’t try that one.
That was my point, I was met with the options (safe moode) after a power down (allbeit the first) I don’t see that after a power down in Windows 10 it just boots into desktop as per.
Cheers
John -
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