Present state of meself.

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  • #20195
    Bob WilliamsBob Williams
    Participant
      @bullstuff2
      Forumite Points: 0

      Have not been active here much, currently sleeping a lot but getting stronger. Today I had my longest walk, all the way around 4 blocks and 3 streets, in a circle. Just kept going to the point of halfway and carried on, pointless turning back. Had a kip, feel much better.

      Castle Hill hospital admin having failed to send a letter from my consultant to my GP after discharge, I had to send my copy up to the surgery for them to copy and pass to GP. In that letter was instructions to 1) take my bloods at 1 week from discharge (last Weds.) and 2) apply vital vaccinations at 4 weeks. The vacc’s are booked in surgery, but the District Nursing team has failed to contact me with a date for bloods. By Wednesday that will be 2 weeks. I emailed our helpful surgery Practice Manager on her weekend off, she replied with the District Nurse Team phone number and an instruction to read them the Riot Act. Point being that, without blood tests (4 separate vials) my consultant and GP cannot arrive at any conclusions regarding onward treatments.

      My contention has always been that the NHS admin staff are largely uncaring and inefficient, whilst the medical staff are the opposite.

      When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
      I'm out.

      #20196
      RichardRichard
      Participant
        @sawboman
        Forumite Points: 16

        Bob, I was sorry to read of this sorry tale and commend you for being stoic enough to carry on battling. Sadly you need to become your own consultant all too often and can reflect on the way that great staff are being brought to their knees by broken systems.

        Last week my wife saw an oncologist and handed over her 7 page medical History, even though it has been handed over several times in the past it was not part of the shocked oncologists understanding of her case. A further complication had also been found he set up a further consultation for this coming Wednesday and asked for an urgent scan to be reported by Wednesday 2nd May. We waited through Thursday, no call, we waited through Friday, no call but on Saturday a letter arrived in the snail mail asking my wife to call Monday to Friday between 9 and 4 to arrange an appointment… I told my wife to ring at 09:00 and tell them a 1o:00 a.m. appointment for Monday would be fine and can they ENSURE the oncologist will have the report by Wednesday.  If 5 days lost in the post is their idea of urgent it is not mine or my wife’s – previously during this saga we have been called in on Saturdays, Sundays and bank holidays.

        So I wish you good luck with your unwanted battle and trust it will be sorted, ASAP. It really is not what you want or need.

        #20197
        Ed PEd P
        Participant
          @edps
          Forumite Points: 39

          I agree with Richard wrt  becoming knowledgeable and ‘helping others to help you’.  Unfortunately despite what the Tory propaganda machine says about NHS funding, the system is close to becoming unravelled. I have a good relationship with my GP and she said that she had reluctantly been forced to halve her hours as there was a stark choice between her family and her job. She just could not do justice to one without screwing up the other. I cannot say I blame her as she was working a 60 hour week for most of the year including the greater part of school holidays.

          Luckily I live in an area that has an excellent IT system and the well trained admin staff know how to feed it and wheedle out mobile phone contacts etc from patients to the extent I get a pretty seamless automated system of call-ups, reminders and prescription renewals which has taken some load off the GPs, but obviously not enough to balance all job/family pressures.

          I hate to think what happens in less attractive inner city areas with carp systems.

          #20202
          Bob WilliamsBob Williams
          Participant
            @bullstuff2
            Forumite Points: 0

            All true guys and I second every word. IMO there should be improved training for NHS admin staff, top to bottom. They should be left in no doubt that their input is the last line of defence against mistakes, and their importance to the system, should be stressed. By the same token, their errors should be punished.

            Richard that is an almost horrifying story. The problem is that it is becoming all too common.

            I count myself fortunate in having a relatively efficient surgery, although the dispensary staff really could benefit from more training. The only efficient and courteous person there is a lady in her 30’s who has my stuff ready before I get to the counter. She is a diamond amongst a heap of coal. I respect my GP’s, who all unhesitatingly tackle those above them to fight for patients. The online surgery services are a model.

            Our surgery has just completed a programme of absorbing another in the town and extending the building. Their own ancient building was quite frankly falling down and had 2 of 4 GP’s who were IMO “time served”. They retired: I suspect at the thoughts of dealing with the technologies of a modern Practice. Problem now is parking, which was never good before the increase in patients and services. I go 30 minutes early and look for a space. If none available, I tour the nearby streets.

            When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
            I'm out.

            #20205
            RichardRichard
            Participant
              @sawboman
              Forumite Points: 16

              Our surgery has several different GPs almost all if not all work part time. One works alternate weeks, not because of anything else except that he feels he pays too much income tax. He does not need the extra hassle for half pay, so he tends to do one week on and one week off.

              While text messages can be a great way to send out reminders, – if they are sent out, but voice over mobile is pure rubbish from home. Callers get told to call the land line to have a meaningful conversation. Admin is a real bear trap, daughter had several lots of treatment and a swab was taken. Her carer, her mother, tried several times to find the results to no effect*. Then daughter was taken back to see a GP and the missing results were ‘found’. The previous treatments had been totally useless. They were no better than ‘vitamin pills’ for the infection.

              *Two possible causes for the delay, the clerical ‘could certainly do better’ and the lab has internal issues where the egotist in charge is trying to empire build by slowing down throughput and claiming the need for more staff to speed things up again.

              #20214
              The DukeThe Duke
              Participant
                @sgb101
                Forumite Points: 5

                I feel your pain re the admin. It’s not uncommon for simple letters to not get to or from our docs and hospitals. It’s seems to get worse year on year.

                Glad to hear you feeling a bit better bob, and good luck to all who have their own battles.

                #20229
                RichardRichard
                Participant
                  @sawboman
                  Forumite Points: 16

                  A bit of happier progress, my wife rang the ‘ring us when you can line‘ and pointed out the situation. The innocent clerk instantly recognised a major cock-up when she heard one and has shoehorned my wife in for 5 p.m. today.

                  Our surgery is planning an extension, but at least there is a public car park right next door with spaces normally available, free for 30 minutes, 20 pence for the first hour. So 20 pence is usually enough for the visit. Being far enough from the station and with parking day rates set high enough it is not really an all day option for commuters.

                  One of the issues with NHS IT is the number of users who will still not use it properly. Most procedures have codes, but some do not wish to use the codes and write long hand in hard to read scrawls and demand telephone responses as they cannot understand the electronic notes.

                  #20234
                  Bob WilliamsBob Williams
                  Participant
                    @bullstuff2
                    Forumite Points: 0

                    Well I managed to get hold of the District Nursing Team (horrible circular phone Options, unclear recordings) I just hit option 1 and got an actual human, in the end. Waiting now for determination of vaccinations by them if possible at same time as bloods. They promise tomorrow. I was fairly humble: ‘not your fault, know you are busy, blah blah – Castle Hill admin has delayed it.’ Etc, etc and more blah blah. We shall see.

                    When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
                    I'm out.

                    #20238
                    RichardRichard
                    Participant
                      @sawboman
                      Forumite Points: 16

                      Well done, for getting an answer. Now we hope it will translate into the desired result for you tomorrow. If it does not pan out do not let the matter slide off the table, it is vital you get what your need.

                      #20245
                      RichardRichard
                      Participant
                        @sawboman
                        Forumite Points: 16

                        Had a phew moment at about 5:30 p.m. after the latest scan as it was was clear of unwanted problems, so apparently no other cancer elsewhere. Wednesday should be a full scale unveiling of the master plan for treatment starting with the chemo, – which will not be fun for anyone.

                        Bob, remember chase down your loose ends tomorrow.

                        #20249
                        The DukeThe Duke
                        Participant
                          @sgb101
                          Forumite Points: 5

                          Great news.

                          #20251
                          PlaneManPlaneMan
                          Participant
                            @planeman
                            Forumite Points: 196

                            It used to be the case that if you got stuck in one of the awful phone menu systems that don’t work well, just do nothing. Eventually the system would throw you to an actual person. Now you get cut off. ?

                            Just hope you all get the help you need.

                            #20258
                            TipponTippon
                            Participant
                              @tippon
                              Forumite Points: 0

                              If 5 days lost in the post is their idea of urgent it is not mine or my wife’s

                              I haven’t had direct experience in the NHS, but in a major energy company. I’ve been told the NHS works the same way in some trusts though:

                              If you speak to someone on a Monday, they put the request for a letter into the system. The requests are processed at the end of the working day.

                              Tuesday morning, the person responsible for writing the actual letter gets the request. They pull up your details, type up the letter, and send it off to be posted. Postal requests are processed at the end of the working day.

                              Wednesday morning, the internal post office gets your letter, stamps it, puts it in a sack with the hundreds of others, and takes it to the Post Office, usually for second class or slower postage.

                              The Post Office is generally pretty good, and processes your letter on the same day if you’re lucky, but as it’s second class at best, it takes two or three days to arrive as a minimum.

                              It’s now at least Friday or Saturday before your urgent letter arrives, assuming everything’s gone smoothly.

                              We were always told to tell customers that letters take seven to ten working days to arrive using this system, as even our bosses knew that things rarely ran smoothly. It’s really frustrating that all these years later, and with all the technological advances in the meantime, that this system still seems to be in use, and is getting more broken than ever!

                              #20272
                              Bob WilliamsBob Williams
                              Participant
                                @bullstuff2
                                Forumite Points: 0

                                That’s interesting Ryan, and fits with most of the NHS documentation that I (eventually) receive. Those that are not completely forgotten to be despatched, that is. As an aside: today a District Nurse came to take my bloods, 1 day short of a week overdue. A very efficient young lady, with a nice new Dell netbook on which she recorded everything. She maintains that the local Nursing team elected to set up their own latest Win 10 system and everything goes to their own server. They then try to send to the rest of the NHS after collating everything at their own base, but mostly have to print and send paper copies. She was obviously IT competent and clearly very frustrated with all the “Steam” parts of the process. Which tallies with your ‘broken system’ statement.

                                Regarding the energy company you worked for: I have been with EDF for almost 6 years now and I have seen them become more and more efficient and demonstrate increasingly better IT performance with time. The website is a model for others, including a responsive Chatline. I can send a Meter Reading and receive a current bill, all within 24 hours. Last week I switched to a cheaper tariff within an hour. IMO, that represents a company constantly evolving its technological services for the 21st. century.

                                When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
                                I'm out.

                                #20276
                                The DukeThe Duke
                                Participant
                                  @sgb101
                                  Forumite Points: 5

                                  This highlights the difference between a company with a monopoly (or government run), and a company that has to keep evolving its service to compete in a sector, where the product (eleccy in this case) is the same no matter your supplier.

                                  You can go two routes, compete on price, but this you can only go so far, or compete by offering try best costomer service.

                                  It’s the latter that keeps me with Amazon for example. It’s also why I left BT and Sky. BT ten years ago was horrific to contact, and sky was not quite as bad, but they have an almost monopoly on tv so they don’t need to worry about price or service.of you want it you have to put up with both.

                                  So I wouldn’t expect the NHS to evolve anytime soon. If anything bits will epvolve, while others won’t, and the two will gel worse than pre evolution, making matters actually worse.

                                  What’s worse is it should be a simple and relatively cheap issue to solve. Though if you streamline the ship, it will end up in redundancy. And give its government pay, it’s better ecomomics to keep it inefficient and employ more people, than get rid of them and pay them benifits and them have less disposable income.

                                  Given the NHS is probably the largest employer in thd UK, if they was to overhaul it, the unemployed numbers would jump though the roof, and the net disposable income would plumit, meaning less pounds floating around. The knock on effect is layoffs in shops, pubs, restraints. food sales drops that would then impact manufacturing etc…

                                  So ultimately its more economically efficient, to be less efficient right across the civil service.

                                  Basically, our medical mail isn’t going to be getting here any quicker any time soon. A simple email direct to your doc could be done in 12h. But instead we employ many to send a letter to you on 7 days, and you pass it on to a doc assistant to them sort it and input it into the system. Ironically the same system the assistant in the hospital had to print it from.

                                  I’ll stop now. I’m sat in an ozzy atm, why Doris is getting zapped. Sigh.

                                  #20277
                                  RichardRichard
                                  Participant
                                    @sawboman
                                    Forumite Points: 16

                                    I suggest that the mail is a far from ideal way to deal with urgent matters. My wife has had her MRI and CT scans sorted out by phone and text with mail ‘sometimes following on behind. Yesterday’s was sorted by her phoning as it was urgent. We have one more on the Bank Holiday Monday and another on the 10th of May.

                                    #20278
                                    The DukeThe Duke
                                    Participant
                                      @sgb101
                                      Forumite Points: 5

                                      I have to agree with that, move my wife is a regular at our cancer unit, she is on text messaging terms with her team. The official stuff just follows behind.

                                      But this sort of backs up my view of its an easily fixed system, but it’s in no one’s interest to fix it.

                                      #20280
                                      RichardRichard
                                      Participant
                                        @sawboman
                                        Forumite Points: 16

                                        Steve, I pretty much agree with what you said. The NHS was originally expected to  help mop up any unemployment after the war and probably did a air job of that back then. However, we are now trying to import people to shore up the services that cannot be staffed by those already here. My wife is seeing a Greek oncologist mind you he is pretty damned good, almost everyone else comes originally from Asia, except the lung specialist who I saw from Portugal. She was keen as mustard, polite and really knew her stuff in very precise English. With some sensible automation of the type that Bob found today more could be done with less waste, fewer hours spent on paperwork and more patients treated. An ex UK doctor was talking about medical services here and in Australia where he went to work. The medical IT meant that he spent about 2 hours per week on paperwork – including PC time and about 38 hours out of his 40 dealing with patients. Here he worked far more hours saw fewer patients and had no job satisfaction. Sorry to say that several things conflict in the NHS to limit progress, mindsets, NIH and pure bloody mindedness.

                                        I once suggested a system remarkably like the one Bob saw today when talking with a group of nurses. The idea of a see through uniform would have gone down better – and NO I did not suggest that or anything like that

                                        #20287
                                        Bob WilliamsBob Williams
                                        Participant
                                          @bullstuff2
                                          Forumite Points: 0

                                          I once suggested a system remarkably like the one Bob saw today when talking with a group of nurses. The idea of a see through uniform would have gone down better – and NO I did not suggest that or anything like that

                                          Maybe cause a few heart attacks, but certainly cheer up the male patients, Richard. ?? Possibly a certain type of female patient – ooops – sorry!

                                          Today I replied to emails from our Surgery Practice Manager, who has been very helpful and replies ASAP. She wanted me to confirm that I was attending tomorrow’s vaccinations at the Surgery, if District Nurse could not do it. This lady stands out as a good example of what NHS admin should be like.

                                          When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
                                          I'm out.

                                          #20297
                                          TipponTippon
                                          Participant
                                            @tippon
                                            Forumite Points: 0

                                            However, we are now trying to import people to shore up the services that cannot be staffed by those already here…

                                            …An ex UK doctor was talking about medical services here and in Australia where he went to work. The medical IT meant that he spent about 2 hours per week on paperwork – including PC time and about 38 hours out of his 40 dealing with patients. Here he worked far more hours saw fewer patients and had no job satisfaction. Sorry to say that several things conflict in the NHS to limit progress, mindsets, NIH and pure bloody mindedness.

                                            Unfortunately, it’s not the case that staff here *can’t* do the jobs, it’s often the case that they *won’t*, and I don’t blame them. Take your newly Australian GP. He’s given up on a good job here to do what the job should be, but in another country. If GPs were given better support and general admin throughout the NHS wasn’t as bloody awful as it is, I doubt that a lot of them would be looking elsewhere.

                                            As a frequent flyer in hospital over the last few years, I’ve seen the situation that the politicians claim doesn’t exist. I’ve been on a ward over a weekend, and only seen the same doctor on call for the whole time – usually from Friday evening until early Monday morning. As you’d imagine, it was a junior doctor, with a senior doctor’s contact details for emergencies. I’ve seen one junior doctor covering more than one ward, and sometimes in other specialities, just because there was no one else available. Once they complete their training, they can go where they like, including moving abroad. Now imagine going through regular shifts like that, seeing the government claim that there is no problem, then realising that you can emigrate to a new country where you feel appreciated and get less crap, for want of a better word.

                                            Once they get above a certain level, doctors get their own teams, and get a lot less of the admin side of the job thanks to secretaries etc., so working in the NHS isn’t as bad. That’s where we get the ‘imported’ doctors. At that level they’re doing the jobs they dreamed of when they started their medical training.

                                             

                                            As an aside, if you find that notes are not passed around hospitals and doctors as quickly as they should be, try getting your doctor registered with Patient View. It’s a website and app that lets you view your own results, and as I understand it, once any results are entered onto the system in a registered medical centre, they appear on the site. I use it whenever I have to visit my GP, as it’s more up to date than his notes…

                                            https://www.patientview.org/

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