Data and unforeseen consequences

This topic has 14 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 1 month ago by Bob Williams.

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January 29, 2018 at 9:26 am #16370
The Duke
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@sgb101
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Smart app strava data map of popular exercise site reveal secret military US base, plus other interesting locations.

Looking by the ‘heat maps’ they are super detailed. The one map they show, you can tell where the buildings are.

It’s an none-obvious but obvious outcome, if it’s tracking fit people all over the world, soldiers are fit, they like to keep fit, they will use apps etc, so in time you end up with maps of all types of places.

It’s not just fitness apps that can do this, probably all kinds business have this type of data and not noticed it, as they can’t be as intrusive and honest as a fitness app.

I wonder if this may make the mods of this world rethink its policy around security and smart tech.

It was a guardian story.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/28/fitness-tracking-app-gives-away-location-of-secret-us-army-bases
January 29, 2018 at 10:30 am #16371
Drezha
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@drezha
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I’ve done GPS tracked activities around military bases. In fairness, I don’t think it’s the end of the world.

See below

Running around RAF Leeming. That data is no different to data that can be gained from Google Maps just by looking.

Issues may arise with bases that aren’t supposed to exist, but exist…

In terms of tracking, this is all done on GPS tracking and I read an article the last week on Reddit in the Geocaching subreddit about the Yanks blocking GPS signals this year for the Red Flag (Top Gun) exercises which would affect civilian devices as well. So if needs be and the MOD decides that it poses a threat, it can prevent GPS from working.

"Everything looks interesting until you do it. Then you find it’s just another job" - Terry Pratchett
January 29, 2018 at 11:15 am #16374
Richard
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@sawboman
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While not quite on the same theme, I have been using the Google Timeline out of interest, however it has recently failed to record almost every movement. It now appears the in headphones kill or severely limit the tracking recording, Bluetooth had less to no impact. I can find no other reason for the missing data, whole days show no movement at all even when I was very much out and about.
January 29, 2018 at 11:29 am #16376
The Duke
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@sgb101
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In general its not, loads of bases you can see on google maps, I’ve looked up the bases I lived on in the nineties, and some have a frigging street view, so they have let Google walk/drive around the place. There are many bases/nations that tell Google to blur out.

however your base location “doesn’t exist.” It becomes an issue. Especially in active service. The like of Kandahar became a city the size of brum, now if we had these apps /trackers and wifi quite a lot of info about said sites would be I’m the hands of faceless corporations or worse, small startups with little oversite.

Kandahar is probably a bad example as it was full of shops, from fast food outlets to pubs, it was a real city by the end.

There are other situations where you may have to say a fit bit, and you’re being tracked full time, that data may not be public, but someone has it. And if some have data, there is always someone that either will want to buy it, or worse steal it.

Imagine the 1940s if we all had health tackers would we be breaking the Enigma code or the fit bit code. Silly example o know. But the fit bit would give exceptional intel on real-time movement, Whereas the enigma was breaking orders possible future movements.

If you had the two, you’d not loose, or it would be very hard to.

I know my examples are silly and far-fetched. But just look how far we have come, in giving away our data in gist ten short years of smartphones, and probably 5 years in smart devices, and the current rise of it.

It’s the unforeseen consequence/side effect stories I always like.

But you are correct, most bases are not secrets, my first batch had it’s own station platform discreetly knows as Lympstone Commando train station, you’d never guess what it was. Lol. Given its on a mainline, you can hardly miss it. Anyone can get off there, you just stuck on the platform until the next train arrives. And id imagine a normal person would get nervous stood next to the armed station guard for 30mins in silence.
January 29, 2018 at 11:34 am #16377
Ed P
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@edps
Forumite Points: 39
If you look at the referenced data it could well be a security problem in that it clearly defines sentry patrol routes.i.e. sentries wearing Ftbits.

That said it does include a lot of weirdness in the apparently underground patrol on the Island of Harris! (actually probably someone doing regular inspections of a wind-farm. – the underground bit is harder to explain!)

Incidentally further to Drezha’s red-flag note, apparently NATO is getting very concerned at the abilities of both the Russians and Chinese to spoof or block GPS. As a result NATO is carrying out regular exercises in which troops/planes/equipment and surrounding areas has the GPS blocked or spoofed.

I guess, given the reliance of civil aviation/shipping on accurate GPS some of these marine/aviation exercises can only take place in localities that are miles from anywhere. Technically blocking GPS is relatively simple, even crooks have been known to jam GPS signals.
January 29, 2018 at 11:46 am #16380
The Duke
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@sgb101
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To go on a massive tangent (its what I do) the plane spoofing is interesting as the day the plane was shot down over Ukraine, nato is rumoured to of been just that close by.
January 29, 2018 at 11:52 am #16381
Richard
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@sawboman
Forumite Points: 16
So was a Russian Anti Aircraft missile battery that was photographed (with difficulty) moving away again.
January 29, 2018 at 12:15 pm #16383
The Duke
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@sgb101
Forumite Points: 5
I wasn’t saying or really want to debate an issue with no [public] answers. I was just saying I found ed point of spoofing jets very interesting. And also a day of the flight incident Nato planes were picked up, I think by Dutch etc, blinking on and off the radar. Nato admitted it was doing exercises in the area.

I didn’t say they downed the plane, just it was interesting.

only the parties involved know the truth, hopefully, I’m my lifetime it comes out.
January 29, 2018 at 12:51 pm #16385
Richard
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@sawboman
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Steve, on that we can agree. It is a murky world full of little of visible substance; I’m afraid I doubt that the true picture will ever emerge.

Whether the flight path was a great choice, is a question, for which no one has provided an answer. I have seen strong arguments around that issue.
January 30, 2018 at 1:22 am #16410
wasbit
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@wasbit
Forumite Points: 245
Richard wrote:

Issues may arise with bases that aren’t supposed to exist, but exist…

Like these you mean?

--
Regards
wasbit

Rig 1: Optiplex 3050 SFF
Rig 2: Asus ROG G20CB (rebuilt wreck)
Rig 3: HP Elitebook 8440P

Dear Starfleet, hate you, hate the Federation, taking Voyager. - Janeway
January 30, 2018 at 10:15 am #16420
Bob Williams
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@bullstuff2
Forumite Points: 0
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.
January 30, 2018 at 10:36 am #16421
Richard
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@sawboman
Forumite Points: 16
Wasbit, that was not me who wrote ‘Issues may arise with bases that aren’t supposed to exist, but exist…’ that was Drezha.

I personally doubt that there are many bases which are unknown, however, whether anyone should wear a traceable device within a military base is another question. Some of us used to be barred from entering work sites sites or areas with a whole range of apparatus in the past, cameras, any transmitting devices etc..

If anyone really wanted to create a hidden anything, it is best to hide them in open sight. That was done in WWII, shuttered ice cream parlours, bungalows that were not bungalows at all and so on. Just use some imagination and make it plausible but ideally quite boring.

Like many bases the bunkers were decommissioned many years ago, but sometimes you just might want some sites to be recognised for what they are thought to be.
January 30, 2018 at 10:03 pm #16443
Tippon
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@tippon
Forumite Points: 0
Richard wrote:

If anyone really wanted to create a hidden anything, it is best to hide them in open sight. That was done in WWII, shuttered ice cream parlours, bungalows that were not bungalows at all and so on. Just use some imagination and make it plausible but ideally quite boring. Like many bases the bunkers were decommissioned many years ago, but sometimes you just might want some sites to be recognised for what they are thought to be.

This is what makes me laugh with Area 51, the supposed secret base that houses the aliens. If you were the US military, and aliens had landed, where’s the one place on earth you wouldn’t keep them? ?
January 31, 2018 at 12:37 am #16445
wasbit
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@wasbit
Forumite Points: 245
Richard wrote:

Wasbit, that was not me who wrote ‘Issues may arise with bases that aren’t supposed to exist, but exist…’ that was Drezha..

My apologies. That’ll teach me to dash off a quick reply.

--
Regards
wasbit

Rig 1: Optiplex 3050 SFF
Rig 2: Asus ROG G20CB (rebuilt wreck)
Rig 3: HP Elitebook 8440P

Dear Starfleet, hate you, hate the Federation, taking Voyager. - Janeway
January 31, 2018 at 10:16 pm #16471
Bob Williams
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@bullstuff2
Forumite Points: 0
Tippon wrote:

This is what makes me laugh with Area 51, the supposed secret base that houses the aliens. If you were the US military, and aliens had landed, where’s the one place on earth you wouldn’t keep them?

A family of aliens currently living in the White House…. That is ‘hiding in plain sight’!

Remember the Dan Ackroyd movie “Coneheads”? The current POTUS has just reshaped the cone into that daft hairstyle.??

When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.
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