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The Duke.
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October 5, 2017 at 10:49 pm #12387
Just watching the most terrifying thing I think I’ve ever seen.
Today was the first meeting of the newly formed (US) space Council, chair by the VP pence.
It’s a long watch, the up shot is, Pence opens with, the US are again in an arms race with Russia and China, and that even though they can’t get into space, they own it, as in all of it, and the world needs to do as they say.
To me it’s a war council, and very public threatening display.
The circus star around the 50min mark iirc. Stick in on in the background and prepare to be gobsmacked and terrified.
I couldn’t find the “end of world” forum, so I’ll post it her.
October 6, 2017 at 10:21 am #12388Clicked the pause pretty quick. Merchant bank=?
Hey, the stupidly rich 80 billion plus Amazon guy is doing mega stuff.
October 6, 2017 at 11:16 am #12389To be honest Steve I was not as worried as you. This was a political dog&pony show aimed at getting the Senate and Upper House to back Trump’s vision. Without the two Houses agreeing to the massive increase in budget funding that will be required this venture goes no-where, even with offloading some of the costs on commercial partners. To get them on board external enemies and threats have to be used as spurs. Patriotism is ingrained from school age onwards, and is a never failing spur in the US just as it is in Russia and China.
I’m glad our country is showing some sense in dumping the Naval assets required to invade other countries and get embroiled in US wars. The beaches Churchill referred to in his stirring speech were those of the UK — if we must spend money on the Navy let it be on sufficient small fast inshore patrol craft appropriately armed to sink any smuggler’s boats!
October 6, 2017 at 1:40 pm #12390I think it is terrifying. I have no doubt all countries have meetings like this, but this was a big public special.
I took from it, that they are gearing up for the next cold war. All while scaring their people with Russia this, China that….
Towards the end a few voices try to reign it back, saying “by America, we mean the allies”, while other members was saying “all that is produced in space America wants a cut of”…
I have no doubt that America would drop any allies that don’t serve a purpose to them.
Funny thing is as the meeting started, I was thinking this could be looked back on in 100 years as the start of Federation of planets, but I soon realised it was more the formation of the klingon war council.
I found half, or more, of the committee and its guests, was bat shit crazy with a list for power, money and most of all war.
Wouldn’t mind a tour of the museum that hosted it.
Now all they need is a working rocket ? talking of owning space, they cant even get off the planet without the scary Russians help. If I was Russia I’d be giving no more lifts.
October 6, 2017 at 9:26 pm #12393It’s all BS between Russia, China, the USA and a side helping of North Korea. With help from the UK, France and a few smaller nations, such as the Czech Republic.
Q: What is the one single, most profitable industry in most advanced, developed nations?
A: The Arms business.
How to keep that business and all its associated employment, moving on profitably? Easy, just invent a whole new Cold War. The last one worked fine. Let’s just hope no one gets too excited – keep an eye on Iran and the Saudis.
Ed: sorry, but you are completely wrong. Reducing the size of the Royal Marines and denying them a beach landing capability, is exactly the wrong path to take. That capability has no bearing upon invading other countries. How many times have small, specialist British Special Forces been able to stop small Brush Fire actions, developing into wars, even genocide? And the RM are indeed SF. I have seen them in action and they have an impact well beyond their numbers, together with an ability to nip situations in the bud, mostly by being bloody scary to a potential enemy.
The reason why this stupid, incompetent, unknowledgeable government is being advised to cut Navy and RM numbers and equipment, is simple: they need personnel and money in order to staff and equip the two bloody great White Elephants that are our two new carriers. Which will be obsolete before they ever sail in earnest and may not have the aircraft they are supposed to be filled with anyway. Once again MOD Procurement has placed both feet firmly in its mouth. Here’s an oxymoron: “Defence Contracts”. How many times has Defence suffered because of Contracts broken, reduced in effectiveness or cancelled, by those who know absolutely nothing about how to manage Defence?
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.October 6, 2017 at 11:10 pm #12394I missed your last paragraph Ed, but what you say you want, is exactly what bulwark does. It had an inner dock that launched RM in either landing craft or RIBs, and probably alot of other stuff. It came into service after I left.
Also every ship has RM on board and one of there roles is to deter and/or disable emery or pirate vessels.
It’s basically RM bread and butter, between tours, that and guarding our tomahawks un north.
What we need is a few more smaller shops like it.
October 7, 2017 at 8:03 am #12401Sorry Bob I disagree, if we cannot land at the main airport in response to the requests of a legitimate Government then we are invading them. Sweden does exactly what you state, but does so only in response to requests from that country or the UN. Fiddling around in places such as Africa just makes our Special Forces troops hostage without any adequate support.
Btw Ars has an article that adds weight to my original response on the Space Council dog&pony show.
[edited — a comment I made on the recent killing of US Green Berets in Niger was wrong and deleted)
October 7, 2017 at 11:08 am #12405That ars article is pointless. And rather crap. There is no doubt the moon is ment ad a side show, to some how get the public on side, for what I can only imagine is going to be one hell of a budget proposal, that in reality is exactly for tech grown and most importantly will support the military complex for the next decade or ten.
All the big contractors on that panel, are all there to place their company at the head of a new era. Basically private companies running the us/world. It will all be sold to the people on nation propaganda and job creation. While really it’s a power grab by companies.
If in the older I’m getting the more I distrust governments, and their agendas.
With our RN RM, they give a lot of aid around the world, most countries that need help, have no working infrastructure, first responders is usually from ships. If their is no threat to the Matlows don’t need protection, the RM do the same support role as the navy.
Tbh Ed, think we need less large ships, unless we go all out and match other nations, which is impossible, so what’s the point? We need small highly train men that are adapted and hardware to suit.
Just thin how many marines could be trained and kept, for the price of our crappy carrier with no planes. Probably enough to cover a hundred years.
In my ideal world, Britain would take a back seat to international issues, however I know money talks, and we need to keep selling weapons to sure up the complex. Just like the US and their space council.
Now talk about redundant arms of our armed forces, we should ditch the raf imo, as both the navy and the army can fulfil their role. I have nothing against the raf Btw, they do a good job, I just don’t see why we need them.
October 7, 2017 at 2:55 pm #12406No arguments re carriers etc. Total waste of money – drones plus a container ship would be a lot cheaper and just as effective as HMS White Elephant which may never be able to fly off its F35’s. link
We should be stepping back and re-examining our place in the world, what MUST we protect and what do we require to do it. Playing lap-dog to the US just makes us enemies as does fiddling around in the Middle East/Horn of Africa,
British foreign policy should put British interests above all else – and ignore all US demands unless they suit us. Our armed services are ranked around sixth to ninth in the world based on assets and numbers. Well behind even India, and certainly behind France.link On another ranking Japan, Italy and South Korea are also higher. Our aspirations should comprehend our abilities, and diminished post-Brexit status, not some vague memories of our Imperial past..
October 7, 2017 at 3:51 pm #12407Ed- in total agreement on all the points you mention.
Corbyn was quoted out of context from an old speach, where he said invading the middle east will only increase terror attacks at home. His words got twisted to “Corbyn says it’s out solders fault we get attacked” which is not what he said. What he said is something I’ve thought since pre Iraq / Afghan mess. He was totally right, but the press won’t sell papers with headlines like that!
Im not a big Corbyn fan, so this isn’t a Labour vs Conservative thing, more a common sense thing.
October 7, 2017 at 6:19 pm #12412Agree to disagree Ed! You have no disagreement from me concerning the continuing attempts by successive governments to hold onto our Imperiel past. There is a lot of that amongst the mass of ordinary people in the UK too, which IMO was demonstrated by the support for UKIP (hopefully fading) and the Brexit vote. Apologies for bringing back another flogged horse, but that is how I see that vote by the majority who voted Leave: a longing for the days when so much of the world’s map was pink. They’re gone, people, we no longer have the power that we once had and the small influence that we have is being steadily eroded by our support for a powerful ally who really does not need us, and would dispose of us in a heartbeat if it suited them. All they do for us today, is create enemies by association, some of whom were once friends.
And now the US is stirring the Middle East arms race between Saudi Arabia and Iran, while of course securing US energy supplies into the future: tinyurl.com/y9zlyuo8
” US to sell $15bn missile defence to Saudi Arabia ” The world gets more dangerous every day.
Steve, I also saw that mangled report about Corbyn. The Labour Party has no perticular appeal for me, although I know the potential candidate for my area as a good person with good ideas, who believes in doing things right. However, she stands no chance in our constituency, where a 3-legged old dog wearing a blue rosette would be elected. But I have a feeling that this government has reached the end of the road with the electorate and I think an appetite for change is slowly gathering momentum. The sad fact is that there is no Tory alternative to Theresa May, despite what the few sheep behind Grant Shaps think.
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.October 7, 2017 at 8:32 pm #12416I do not disagree wrt Theresa May. Those who could probably make a fist of it probably see it as a poisoned chalice at the present time. I suspect that even Corbyn would like her to stay. A wounded, uncertain leader is a much better opponent to have than (say) a vigorous photogenic Justin Trudeau look-alike.
October 8, 2017 at 3:05 am #12426Defo, I said after the last election, that it was the best result for Labour. Whoever is at the helm for the brexit farce, was never going to come out of it well. A real poise chalice.
Labour made loads of ground, and luckily for them didn’t win.
Im no tory fan, I wad never a fan of Cameron, but could always see the reasons for what he wanted to to do, and it was at a time when Labour couldn’t even tell us what it stood for. But now, I don’t like her, and it’s showing she is now in way above her head. It’s a crying shame DC felt he had to promise a refined, because of the potential UKiP threat.
Now we are in a total mess, DC didn’t want brexit, and gambled it would fall flat, it never. The actual brexit group, didn’t actually want brexit, proof being they all resigned the day after they won. In an “oh shit moment, what have we done” moment.
I think they tried thier hardest to loose the race, with the mental “we are sick of listing to the professionals…. ” quote. Hoping that would pit people off. Though they never realised the power the unofficial fringe had, that was selling brexit on lies.
I’m still don’t think we’ll actually leave. I said it from before day one, (I was in the stay camp) but did say I’d like to see brexit vote succeed, just to see how they would riggle out of it. Sadly I’m getting to see the riggle
I think it’s nailed on Corbyn is going to be the next pm, I don’t think it will end well, he is the polar oppersite of TM.
Perfect world, a socialist country would be best, one bordering on communism. However in the real world, we are in the capalist era, and it’s impossible to turn the ship around, without a dictator, and they never end well!
You would think the answer would be middle ground politics, but TBs new labor F+#ked that up. However after mays (far) right tenure, and Corbyn (far) left tenure, I think we’ll be back to middle ground politics.
I think I’m basically saying non of them work. Capitalism is a flawed concept. Socialism even communism, on paper is perfect, but you need the major world players all on board. Like one government that is in place to actually serve the people and distribute the wealth evenly. But that system can’t work if the majority is running on the debt ridden, in fashion driven capatalist set up.
It’s as if capatalism is set up to slowly funnel all the money in one direction.
Personally I’d rather live in a system where I’m a pointless cog in a system that looks after everyone, rather than a pointless cog in a system that only looks after the top 1%.
I know my opinion isn’t widely liked. And I’m not stupid enough to think socialism isn’t gamed by the top people either.
Greed is human nature.
It’s late and I’m rambling. Good night all.
October 8, 2017 at 1:04 pm #12466Ah we are on Socialism, safe enough ground for me. My grandfather was a founder member of the old Independent Labour Party and agitated in the Pottery industry against the employers, to achieve better working conditions, which included extractor fans to remove the Silica dust in the air. This caused lung problems and cancers, which was what eventually killed him in 1954. My dad died the same way, caused by the coal dust and stone dust in the pits he worked from 1918 to 1969. Dad was non-political, voted but didn’t even tell our mam or his 3 lads which way he voted. That was because granddad had 13 children, 8 of whom lived to adulthood, and none of them grew in sunshine, * had enough food or clothing, due to granddad leading strikes at a time when there was no active Union and no dole.
*They lived in Burslem, Staffordshire, all their young lives. It was the Potteries “Mother Town”, still is. It lies in a valley surrounded by higher ground and from the 18th to the later 20th century, there were dozens of huge pottery kilns and chimneys, belching smoke. The whole town was under a pall of smoke most of the time, which was why my dad loved the country and got out into it whenever he could. When he moved to a Nottinghamshire village in the middle of Sherwood in 1926, he believed it was Heaven.
The Socialist Gene passed to my big brother, who became a Labour councillor, an Independent Labour councillor after the ’84 strike. He did something that must have caused granddad to revolve at speed in his grave: he worked with Tory councillors to get better deals for the village. He was respected in the village by the people of the village, but not by the local official Labour Party, some of whom were former communists. When I remember his birthday on the village FB page every year, the number of ‘Likes’ and approving personal messages prove that he is still remembered and his memory is still respected. He died in ’88 of cancer, also mining-related.
When I was 17, I had one mate whose dad was a communist party member. They encouraged me to read all the propaganda coming out of the USSR, aimed at working class British people. As many young people are, I was impressed by all this. Then my dad told me his life story and my granddad’s. The older I became, the more I began to see politics and political parties changing, being taken over by ‘career politicos’ who don’t really give a damn about their constituents and will say and do anything they believe will be acceptable to those constituents, then deny saying those words and carrying out those actions, later.
I have a feeling that this is changing today. I think that the disgust that ordinary people feel for most politicians, is going to result in a change of government. If that doesn’t happen and say, a minority Tory government results, I can see unrest and protest gathering across Britain. There is already a widening gap between the constituent nations of the United Kingdom. That is being followed by major metropolitan areas of England, wanting to raise their own taxes and govern for themselves. There is a lot of upheaval ahead for this country and I can also see Brexit being turned on its head, when the public finally realise that both sides of that Referendum lied to us and are still lying to us.
When the Thought Police arrive at your door, think -
I'm out.October 8, 2017 at 3:10 pm #12468Although I do not disagree with you Bob, the ability of politicians to achieve meaningful change has become more and more constrained over the years by the way our permanent unelected bureaucracy have interpreted our unwritten constitution. These people hold positions of power that are unconstrained by any real oversight – Ministers cannot actually dismiss any incompetent or intransigent Civil Servants. Only another Civil Servant can do this with ultimate power residing in the Head of the Civil Service who answers only to his maker!. Cameron tried to change all this but Brexit derailed his efforts. link The old-boy system also ensures that no-one can be brought in to the top hierarchy who might possibly rock the boat. link
Unfortunately Brexit will kill any efforts to change all this in the medium term, as the only real change that could work would be a written Constitution and Bill of Rights that was drafted to break up the cosy nepotism/old school tie that permeates the top Civil Service jobs. That of itself would be a huge task, and probably bigger than Brexit as it would have to navigate through a Civil Service set on destroying it!
October 8, 2017 at 3:56 pm #12472Turkeys don’t vote for Xmas I think is the saying. If your on the inside, making a good living, why would the people with the power to change it, bother?
I still think a more Singaporean parochial to political life is needed. Ie no carrier politicians, go in to service the over 55 with a max term of 10 years, and hugh punishment for self agendas. It wouldn’t fix everything, not close, but it would fix alot.
Politicians today don’t seem to realise (or long forgot) they are their to look after the people, not themselves.
I have no issues with austerity measures, as long as they are for the greater good, and explained. That’s why I didn’t mind the DC government.
Though today is a different world to 2009. Still feels strange to view 2009 in the past tense.
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